Omar Hassan Bashir, criminal or victim?

[Robin Hood]

Originally Posted by J.Hanna

Well you are correct in that each world leader is guilty of some crimes and no one is free of sin, BUT Bachir is in a whole other league. The man committed genocide - over 200,000 killed! He is the worst of the worst!

For ur information, the ICC isn't charging him for genocide, only for indirect responsability for war crimes.

[The Jade]

Originally Posted by 4U2IMI8

When the ICC declares Bush and the Israeli generals and politicians responsible for the massacres in Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine as war criminals only then can they have any semblance of justice and credibility.
They are making a mockery of justice just like the judges responsible for detaining the four generals in Lebanon.

What kind of logic is that ??

The guy is a murderer, he sent his janjawid militias to go wipe out a big portion of his own citizens.

It has nothing to do with Israel or the US, because if everytime you want to compare a crime to another, there won't be any criminal left on earth because you'll always find someone worse !


The guys should go down and others too, but that doesn't mean that we should defend him because others are not framed yet !!!

[Xguy]

Originally Posted by 4U2IMI8

When the ICC declares Bush and the Israeli generals and politicians responsible for the massacres in Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine as war criminals only then can they have any semblance of justice and credibility.
They are making a mockery of justice just like the judges responsible for detaining the four generals in Lebanon.

You guys have taken the above good comment and twisted it out of context, I didn't see him saying it's ok for criminals to get away with crime , nor he did deffend Bashir, he is simply saying a corrupt and biased justice system (syuch as ICC) should not be trusted nor their statments should be credible.

it's true where were they when crimes were commited against arabs ? that by itself makes their judgment invalid, and it makes me wonder what really did happen in Sudan, I can't comment on it, because all the reporting we get is from a controlled media, who knows who could be inciting the fighting there, or who is arming the rebels, questions still remains unkown as far as I personally am concerned.

[moughtarib]

Al Bashir is an outright murderer who is responisble for the genocide in a region of his own people.

He should be held accountable.

I believe that all this 'noise' is just because the other 'dictators' want to protect their asses too and don't want this 'first' to have a 'second...

IE: if bashir is taken, then Mugabe of Zimbabwe will be next, or maybe Hosni Mubarak of Egypt.... Thats the Problem for Africa.

As for Arabs, ahla wou sahla give me one name who is not a dictator or a pure monarchy with absolute power? (Iraq and Lebanon only probably)

...thats all there is to it...

at the judicial level, he should be taken to court. Politically, its a bit scary that he's taken to court and no one else is being interrogated for their crimes?

What is 500,000 Iraqis dead and 2 million external refugees and many more million internal refugees? Isn't the US president or the coalition responsible for that ?

How does the LAW decide to go after one wrong doer vs. the other? The scale of it? If its the SCALE, i think the Iraqi scale surpasses the sudanese one.

...yalla...watch and see how "justice" will prevail

[Frisbeetarian]

Al Bashir is an outright murderer who is responisble for the genocide in a region of his own people.

He should be held accountable.

I believe that all this 'noise' is just because the other 'dictators' want to protect their asses too and don't want this 'first' to have a 'second...

IE: if bashir is taken, then Mugabe of Zimbabwe will be next, or maybe Hosni Mubarak of Egypt.... Thats the Problem for Africa.

As for Arabs, ahla wou sahla give me one name who is not a dictator or a pure monarchy with absolute power? (Iraq and Lebanon only probably)

...thats all there is to it...

at the judicial level, he should be taken to court. Politically, its a bit scary that he's taken to court and no one else is being interrogated for their crimes?

What is 500,000 Iraqis dead and 2 million external refugees and many more million internal refugees? Isn't the US president or the coalition responsible for that ?

How does the LAW decide to go after one wrong doer vs. the other? The scale of it? If its the SCALE, i think the Iraqi scale surpasses the sudanese one.

...yalla...watch and see how "justice" will prevail

The problem in your argument is that you automaticaly stated that any rule which may have an authoritarian or monarchal nature is bad and can only yield bad things to the people. A statement which is quite wrong imo.

[moughtarib]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

The problem in your argument is that you automaticaly stated that any rule which may have an authoritarian or monarchal nature is bad and can only yield bad things to the people. A statement which is quite wrong imo.

My assumption is that every human would like to 'participate' in governance if his nation and a dictatorship or pure monarchy are not types of governance that allow people to have their voices taken into consideration.

and in such states, there needs to be some kind of human rights breaches and jailings for 'opposition' unless the subjects of the king/dictator are ALL happy and merry...

That is quite rare; I understand that Malaysia is not a democracy and did something out of it self and so is China but there are good reasons/proofs to take the Malaysian/Chinese... authorities police/moukhabarat to Court for breaching human rights.

[General my General!]

It's funny that some people are completely ignoring the fact that it is not just the ICC that is stating this against Bashir, but also NGOs with excellent track records on various issues, including Iraq and Palestine, such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. The way I see it, they have done far more for justice than any of us, so we'd do best to at least give time to look it up further.

On a side note, a few years ago I met a small group of youth from Darfur, they had been suffering from persecutions since back then, and when they tried to spread the word to the world, everyone was either deaf or powerless to do anything about it. Their suffering is real, the scale and extent of genocide going on in Africa in places like Darfur, D.R.of Congo and others, is unimaginable to most. It is far beyond anything that we Lebanese, or the Palestinians or Iraqis or Israelis have ever been subjected to. But the world couldn't care less, or at least most of it. Only a few brave personalities, organizations and journals have only moved on this. We are all guilty of allowing such crimes to go unhindered into th 21st century. Shame. I am ashamed of myself that I cannot do more, and even more so of my country and my fellow humans.

[TripolySunni]

وليد جنبلاط أول عربي يرحب بصدور مذكرة اعتقال البشير

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by General my General!

It's funny that some people are completely ignoring the fact that it is not just the ICC that is stating this against Bashir, but also NGOs with excellent track records on various issues, including Iraq and Palestine, such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. The way I see it, they have done far more for justice than any of us, so we'd do best to at least give time to look it up further.

On a side note, a few years ago I met a small group of youth from Darfur, they had been suffering from persecutions since back then, and when they tried to spread the word to the world, everyone was either deaf or powerless to do anything about it. Their suffering is real, the scale and extent of genocide going on in Africa in places like Darfur, D.R.of Congo and others, is unimaginable to most. It is far beyond anything that we Lebanese, or the Palestinians or Iraqis or Israelis have ever been subjected to. But the world couldn't care less, or at least most of it. Only a few brave personalities, organizations and journals have only moved on this. We are all guilty of allowing such crimes to go unhindered into th 21st century. Shame. I am ashamed of myself that I cannot do more, and even more so of my country and my fellow humans.

And who is responsible for Congo and Somalia? isn't it America and England.

[General my General!]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

And who is responsible for Congo and Somalia? isn't it America and England.

That's irrelevant, what should that have to do with this? Ultimately no foreign country can make genocide in a far-away land without the consent and cooperation of locals. That is always the case. The US government, under Bush even, is not the most disastrous in human history. There have been many others. Of course when a superpower messes up, it usually has a larger impact, but still, what country is not guilty of persecution, torture and massacre. As much as we parade ourselves as just, all of our countries and people have throughout history raped justice. Granted that western powers have have a huge influence on this in the past century, but that doesn't mean we are also not guilty, for our inaction is just as bad as their action.

Cheers!