The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by YOSS

Stella before 75 that "influence" was mainly for the Palestinian cause and their presence in Lebanon and the fight against Israel etc. The Kingdom funded the PLO who operated out of Lebanon.

Saudi Arabia did not historically have direct influence in Lebanon, however major was their influence. Their influence was rather on Syria and before 1975 The Kingdom was for the project of Big Syria and their main interest was establish economic relations and strenghthen the Arab League.

Oh please, so ur saying that the SA did give the palestininas money to buy tanks and heavy artillery to use against the Lebanese. Actually that's a fact and there's no use denying it. They wanted to get rid of the palestinian problem so they decided to kick the Lebanese out of Lebanon. It's a fact in history and everyone knew kissinger plans. Don't tell me that the arabs did not finance the countless pro-syrian militias in Lebanon during the war. Their weapons never showed any reasonable fight against Israel through Lebanon. If thier project was for bigger syria then how come they had no influence in Lebanon. Wasn't lebanon part of greater syria ?

WiseCookie's comment about the King ordering no more business with Lebanon, and maybe through the clergy is simply not realistic.

I stated once and again that it was an example of the degree of influence and not of what was possible or not, but then again people who don't allow women to drive are capable of a lot.

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by Omega80

I believe if we are going to worry about foreign influence, we should worry more about Syria, Iran, the U.S., and France more than we should worry about Saudi Arabia.

I still don't see the grave danger if the Hariri's or some Saudis give money to some Islamic organizations in Lebanon. I don't see how that is a major threat to the country at all. Are they funding Madrassa's or similar types of schools to spread extremism in Lebanon?

Instead of worrying about Saudi Arabia on this issue, we should worry more about Syria and reports that they are sending weapons and Al-Qaeda sympathizers into Lebanon.

Don't worry, Coming soon on lfpm.org foreign influcences of France, USA, Russia, Syria, Israel, and all other suggestions are welcome. I will spread the love after we're done talking about the topic of this thread, Saudi Arabia.

[YOSS]

[quote]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

Oh please, so ur saying that the SA did give the palestininas money to buy tanks and heavy artillery to use against the Lebanese. Actually that's a fact and there's no use denying it. They wanted to get rid of the palestinian problem so they decided to kick the Lebanese out of Lebanon. It's a fact in history and everyone knew kissinger plans. Don't tell me that the arabs did not finance the countless pro-syrian militias in Lebanon during the war. Their weapons never showed any reasonable fight against Israel through Lebanon. If thier project was for bigger syria then how come they had no influence in Lebanon. Wasn't lebanon part of greater syria ?

The 'idea' here is to analyze their motives, what transpired eventually on the ground as 'events' would be open for interpretation.

They financed the PLO to fight Israel; not the Lebanese. The PLO+Kata'eb+Syria+US-Marines+Israel+a weakness in Lebanon which I'll refrain from identifying (oh boy) = Lebanon's War/PLO. (slash as in subdirectory not 'or').

The bombing of the Marine base in Beirut which Israel's intell knew of 24 hours in advance (source: 'By Way of Deception' by Victor Ostrovosky) and refrained purposely from informing the Marines about so as they'd leave Lebanon in 83 after the PLO was already out since 82. They didn't want them meddling into day to day detail anymore according to the book.

Yes, they funded lots, but you said how: "Pro-Syrian" militias (event) hence their motives (idea). They didn't have a Big Syria project, the Syrians did, and manipulated money out of the Saudi's in the name of Islam.

I stated once and again that it was an example of the degree of influence and not of what was possible or not, but then again people who don't allow women to drive are capable of a lot.

ba3da so3beh

[Omega80]

Originally Posted by Free_Patriot

Don't worry, Coming soon on lfpm.org foreign influcences of France, USA, Russia, Syria, Israel, and all other suggestions are welcome. I will spread the love after we're done talking about the topic of this thread, Saudi Arabia.

Eh great, but you've still failed to show the grave threat that Saudi Arabia is posing to Lebanon, if that is what you are trying to say.

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Free_Patriot

While the first part of that post is a serious and very interesting accusation, the second part sounds more like a Lebanese MP speech who is trying to be very diplomatic and politically correct. Are you trying to balance your tone regarding Saudi? Why would they try to kill Sayed Hussein Fadlallah? It's also interesting the role that former PM Hariri (RIP) played. It sounds like it's a very positive one.

The Saudi changed thier politics since the war of liberation of Kwiate.
Before , they were all (arabs) afriad of Iran exporting revloution and they made all efforts to get rid of any pro-iranian revolutionary. Seyed M. Hussien Fadlalah was the spiritual leader of Hizbollah and so he was the no 1 target on the Saudi agenda.
After the Kwaite liberation and Rafic hariri getting into lebanese politics with a blessing from Saudi Arabia the shaits were a major part of lebanese geopolitics and Hariri actually needed the shiat push especially berri.

Anyways , i cant deny thier major role in our economy and politics but its all for the better lebanon and never interferd directly.
Iran is also a good ally to lebanon but they hadnt that much investments in lebanon bec of the sanctions and thier policies toward USA.

Hopefully we wil have a lot of freinds thus we play a role in decison making around the region with the help of others.

Salam

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by mount_amel

The Saudi changed thier politics since the war of liberation of Kwiate.
Before , they were all (arabs) afriad of Iran exporting revloution and they made all efforts to get rid of any pro-iranian revolutionary. Seyed M. Hussien Fadlalah was the spiritual leader of Hizbollah and so he was the no 1 target on the Saudi agenda.
After the Kwaite liberation and Rafic hariri getting into lebanese politics with a blessing from Saudi Arabia the shaits were a major part of lebanese geopolitics and Hariri actually needed the shiat push especially berri.

Anyways , i cant deny thier major role in our economy and politics but its all for the better lebanon and never interferd directly.
Iran is also a good ally to lebanon but they hadnt that much investments in lebanon bec of the sanctions and thier policies toward USA.

Hopefully we wil have a lot of freinds thus we play a role in decison making around the region with the help of others.

Salam

The problem is ya Mounty is that those friends are helping themselves in the decision making of our domestic issues rather than giving a say in regional politics. wa min al 7oubbi ma katal :LEBANON:

[YOSS]

Originally Posted by mount_amel

The Saudi changed thier politics since the war of liberation of Kwiate.
Before , they were all (arabs) afriad of Iran exporting revloution and they made all efforts to get rid of any pro-iranian revolutionary. Seyed M. Hussien Fadlalah was the spiritual leader of Hizbollah and so he was the no 1 target on the Saudi agenda.
After the Kwaite liberation and Rafic hariri getting into lebanese politics with a blessing from Saudi Arabia the shaits were a major part of lebanese geopolitics and Hariri actually needed the shiat push especially berri.

Anyways , i cant deny thier major role in our economy and politics but its all for the better lebanon and never interferd directly.
Iran is also a good ally to lebanon but they hadnt that much investments in lebanon bec of the sanctions and thier policies toward USA.

Hopefully we wil have a lot of freinds thus we play a role in decison making around the region with the help of others.

Salam

Saudis changed indeed - but why?

Yes in an effort to preserve their power (Royal Family), they needed the West to help them against Iran - who many average Saudis sympathise with. Lotsa money had to be pumped into weapon purchases from the West to ship over to Iraq who held that Persian front away from the Saudi's & Kuwaiti's. But an Iraq-Iran war costs less than, a US led coalition to free Kuwait.

After Kuwait's liberation, Saudi Arabia's economy basically became in debt for the first time ever (hence your view that then their politics changed). So there's less of a chance a regional power can manipulate money out of them to serve its cause. Those services are now for 'World' powers only who can afford the services.

The Saudis as a people are a friend to Lebanon and you have to keep in mind in a Monarchy, the people's true will is almost never the one dictating the government's actions.

[jiugiusti]

There are hundred, thousands of lebanese in lebanon and outside lebanon who have a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of money to invest in lebanon if lebanon becomes a safe and honest place to invest not crushed by the KSA, Iranian and Syria allies.investors.rulers of the market.

[mount_amel]

Originally Posted by Free_Patriot

The problem is ya Mounty is that those friends are helping themselves in the decision making of our domestic issues rather than giving a say in regional politics. wa min al 7oubbi ma katal :LEBANON:

Haj mounty allah ykhaleek

Where did you see the saudis or the iranians interfering in our domestic issues rather than defending thier investments which is so normal.

Salam

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by mount_amel

Haj mounty allah ykhaleek

Where did you see the saudis or the iranians interfering in our domestic issues rather than defending thier investments which is so normal.

Salam

Haj Mounty ,

Iranians are in a different thread http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13724

I don't want to feel that I am going back to the initial zero measurement when we've been trying to days to research about foreign influence, maybe it's time to move on to talk about other countries. Lebanon is a place where foreign interests in both political and economic life are present. Some people, (like you it seems) don't see anything unusual with the role of Saudi Arabia in Lebanon, they rather see it as completely normal and positive if it exists at all. Others, (like me it seems), see the Saudi role a rather more influential than average in a normal sovereign nation especially when the leader of the parliamentary majority in this country is a Saudi citizen.
Omega said that I failed to show the threat of Saudis over Lebanon. I see a threat of Saudis over the entire region. Their strength is a threat, and their weakness is a threat. Their good relations with the US is a threat, and their bad relations with the US is a threat. Their ideology is a threat to my way of life in my country. Everything about them is a threat. wa choukran.