The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

[Free_Patriot]

In a previous thread, I raised the subject of the Iranian influence on Lebanese politics that comes from my interest in understanding the historical continuous foreign influence in Lebanon coming from various international and regional powers and the means through which this influence infiltrate. The most controversial forms of influence are the ones that come through the hearts and minds of ordinary Lebanese citizens.
To let you know how sensitive this topic is, just by me opening a thread about Iran, I was accused of contributing to an Anti-Shiite propaganda!!
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Well today I would like to raise the issue of the Saudi influence. Saudi Arabia has played a positive role in the economy of the country giving jobs to hundreds of thousands of Lebanese ambitious and hard working individuals. This allowed thousands of families to live a relatively good quality of life and it contributed to the economic cycle. Not to mention the strong Saudi market that opens good potentials to the economies of the whole region.
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However, on the political level, many would argue that Saudi Arabia has been playing a very negative role with its indirect support of the Salafis and Wahhabis. Similar to the way the Saudis play politics inside Saudi Arabia, i.e., they follow the concept of "leave us the economy and the moneymaking and fill the ideological vacuum of the daily way of life", the Saudis seem to follow the same concept regionally such as in Lebanon.
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What do you think of the Saudi role, the positives, the negatives?
Is Hariri the only Saudi tool and the Saudis will always somehow be behind the “political sunnism” in Lebanon whoever the players are?
Is the Saudi-Lebanese relations are based on interests only or there is more into the Arab-Sunni cultural connection?

[LubnanALkawi]

i think saudi Arabia is the American policy in the middle east what ever usa want in the midle east, it goes threw Saudi Arabia but i dont belive that saudi arabia have ''Atme3'' in Lebanon

now you anti sunist Free patriot loool thats the problem in lebanon if you say anything about iran you are traitor same thing about saudi arabia and other

[Danny Z]

There is no direct influence of the Saudi government in Lebanon, there are investors like Hariri, Prince Talal, Eemar and other saudi investors or companies investing.
Basic economical equations dictate that a country needs to finance its external debts, and foreigner buying Lebanese assets is a way to finance this debt, hence investments.
On the other hand the Iranian influence does not come through economical investments but through Transfers, (direct money or weapons which otherwise would have been bought).
In both cases we lebansese are inviting both to help our economy because we have debt to finance. Usually investments are not bad to finance the debt because they create growth through job creation and consumption.
However when you have corruption, there is no job growth hence nobody to consume, this situation on the long term is unbearable for investors who at one point just give up on investing in your country

[WiseCookie]

Well I would agree that Hariri is a tool, but not the kind of tool that ur talking about. I'll leave that up to my fellow americans to interpret.

The KSA is an ultra-conservative country that denies women thier rights and oppresses all those who oppose it. We all know that they are the head of wahabism and it has been constantly proven that they fun terrorism throughout the world. But then again, how can they be american allies but still fund terrorism throughout the world ? Something does not seem right in this relationship in my opinion, but if anyone watched Farenheit 911 you would see that there is a link between the two, although it seems to be a bit far fetched, it does make a point.

Lebanon should not associate itself with extermism. We want all the best relations with all the countrys around us and even away from us, but when it comes to the tampering in our internal affairs we should accept no one. Lebanon has become like the slave, and the KSA has become the master. Since the KSA helped Lebanon rebuild itself to a certain point, now we are in debt to them and can't speak for ourselves and defend ourselves infront of them and at least refuse a request, but then again I might be wrong.

[Kolar]

i can see it this way, Saudi Arabia wants the best for Lebanon not only because the relationship with Hariri but she wants a safe arabic environment because any shakin' in the political system will reflect badly on it, we should not forget that the political system in S A is similar to the one is Syria and WAS in Palestine so after the last elections in Palestine its like they lost a brother in arm so thats why S A is tryin to calm the situation between Lebanon and Syria because losing a similar system will create a stress on S A

[Omega80]

I disagree. I don't see how in anyway we are slaves to Saudi Arabia, nor do I see how they are trying to make us their "slaves".

Like was said, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have provided jobs to hundresd of thousands of Lebanese over the years. I myself grew up in Saudi Arabia because my father worked there. I also don't see how they are helping Wahhabism to grow in Lebanon, unless someone has facts related to this they would like to share with us.

Without all those people being employed in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf, sending remittances back home, I don't see how the Lebanese economy would have survived at all to be quite honest.

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by kolar

i can see it this way, Saudi Arabia wants the best for Lebanon not only because the relationship with Hariri but she wants a safe arabic environment because any shakin' in the political system will reflect badly on it, we should not forget that the political system in S A is similar to the one is Syria and WAS in Palestine so after the last elections in Palestine its like they lost a brother in arm so thats why S A is tryin to calm the situation between Lebanon and Syria because losing a similar system will create a stress on S A

The KSA wants what's best for it and not for Lebanon. If its interests coincide with Lebanon then it will help Lebanon, if they don't then they'll go against it. It's pretty simple, just look at the taef accord, which basically did not solve anything, but shifted balances and did not "balance" them. Lebanon's interests does not coincide with having "sisterly" relations with the syrians at this point. Time after time the syrian government openly attacked the lebanese government. In other countries this would have been a sort of decleration of war, anyway i hope i made myself clear.

[WiseCookie]

Originally Posted by Omega80

I disagree. I don't see how in anyway we are slaves to Saudi Arabia, nor do I see how they are trying to make us their "slaves".

Like was said, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have provided jobs to hundresd of thousands of Lebanese over the years. I myself grew up in Saudi Arabia because my father worked there. I also don't see how they are helping Wahhabism to grow in Lebanon, unless someone has facts related to this they would like to share with us.

Without all those people being employed in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf, sending remittances back home, I don't see how the Lebanese economy would have survived at all to be quite honest.

See you said it urself. This is why the Lebanese government can never say no to saudi arabia, or the Lebanese can't say anything against saudi arabia.... Remember the show "bila rakib" on newtv. New TV was closed for three days because the show was going to air a piece about the KSA that was negative.

[Danny Z]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

See you said it urself. This is why the Lebanese government can never say no to saudi arabia, or the Lebanese can't say anything against saudi arabia.... Remember the show "bila rakib" on newtv. New TV was closed for three days because the show was going to air a piece about the KSA that was negative.

Canada says no to the US repeatedly and the US gets pissed off sometimes punishes Canada with trade sanctions against NAFTA rulings yet the US still punishes its own consumers this way. Usually the disputes are minor and nothing major happens. Lebanon can say no to Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia can fire all Lebanese working in Saudi and we would both loose.
If somebody sees further than his nose then mutual respect is the way to be uses between nations. However nations should represent their people, because it is only in democracies that if a ruler is sanctioned if his pride gets over the country's pride; and in Saudi Arabia they can fire all Lebanese, damage their own economy and ours and not get sanctioned for it.
While in Lebanon, leaders kill and murder and then people re-elect them.
So before we move away from our banana republic and kingdoms, no healthy relations can be built in the middle east.

[Omega80]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

See you said it urself. This is why the Lebanese government can never say no to saudi arabia, or the Lebanese can't say anything against saudi arabia.... Remember the show "bila rakib" on newtv. New TV was closed for three days because the show was going to air a piece about the KSA that was negative.

I see your point, however, your example of one show doesn't really mean that it has reached the point where Lebanon is a hostage to Saudi Arabia, as in, we have to do whatever they want us to do, basically, that we are a satellite state or something like that. I just don't see it.

The fact that many Lebanese work in Saudi Arabia doesn't mean that it is a slave/master relatoinship at all. I also don't think they did it out of the kindness of their own heart, but rather because they needed those people to go and work there.

On the contrary, just recently Egypt and Saudi Arabia wanted Lebanon to make some sort of a deal with Syria to relieve tensions, and Lebanon refused to meet the demands. If what you are saying was true, then Lebanon would have accepted, don't you think?