Israelis Are Getting Desperate

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

The Quran says that you have to fight although you hate it
so we were not supposed to actually like fighting or violence BUT the fact that a person has died for his or her countery is considered to be an Honor and a privilege in eastern civilazations even before islam, i mean even today we have some christian martyrs.
So you can call it enlightment or brain-washing in the end it's the person himself that chooses to do it, and we cannot judge thier real intentions or motives.all we can do is watch them die for a country called palestine.

I haven't said there is no honor at all in dying for fighting for what you believe. There is some honor in doing so (although not enough so that your family would rejoice over it). And also, it doesn't mean the eastern world doesn't care about life, but still, that basically is used to encourage stuff like suicide bombing etc.

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Rainywinter

I haven't said there is no honor at all in dying for fighting for what you believe. There is some honor in doing so (although not enough so that your family would rejoice over it). And also, it doesn't mean the eastern world doesn't care about life, but still, that basically is used to encourage stuff like suicide bombing etc.

I did not accuse you of saying that there is no honor In fact i do agree with you concerning some points, for example im not really fond of suicide bombings, because when you resist you are defending yourself and your family whereas when you blow yourself up Well that's the end of the line for you and probably your family.

So im against anything with suicide in it. as long as there is 1% chance that you can return alive then take that chance.

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

I did not accuse you of saying that there is no honor

Yeah I know, just wanted to raise that up. I probably shouldn't have started the sentence with "I haven't said..."

In fact i do agree with you concerning some points, for example im not really fond of suicide bombings, because when you resist you are defending yourself and your family whereas when you blow yourself up Well that's the end of the line for you and probably your family.

...and are usually done against innocent civilians.

[tsedek]

even this thread is turning into superficials...


anybody still interested in the 'human factor'?

[Abufijli]

Originally Posted by Rainywinter

You know this is true, and probably one of the biggest cultural differences - western society considers life to be most sacred and eastern society considers death to be sacred of all. This is probably because the western world is less religious and more modernized, and thus less easily brain washed to blindly believe to religious claims such as "joy of death" and the philosophy behind it.

I can say it's pretty hard to sympathize with a mother cheering after her child was killed.

I am sorry but what you are saying is plain BS, eastern and western societies both celebrate death on the battle field. Here is Australia we celebrate ANZAC Day every year with a public holiday, mass and veterans parade. ANZAC day is the day thousands of Australians persihed in Gallipoli Turkey during WWI, yet we celebrate it as a symbol of Australian pride. All humans consider the sacrifice of life for the homeland as a sacred thing.

[Abufijli]

Originally Posted by proIsrael-nonIsraeli

I say you do not hear it because those families are under duress plus they have to keep up proper apperance while in public. What goes on in their home you do not know.

Agreed, obviously losing a loved one is hard on anybody, even if he died defending his land, it is still a loss. But a loss worthwhile.

About different planet. That I agree. We do not celebrate death of our beloved.

Yes you do. I'm sure the US has a day where it honours the fallen on the battlefield. Mr Bush always speaks of the great sacrifice the dead US soldiers have made in Iraq.

Exactly because you say Quntar is a hero everybody (including myself) believes to Israelis when they claim al Durra was killed by Palestinians for Page Ranking purposes.

Who is everybody? The western world is not everybody. Majority of the arab/muslim world do not believe the Israeli story and believe him to be a hero.

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by Abufijli

I am sorry but what you are saying is plain BS, eastern and western societies both celebrate death on the battle field. Here is Australia we celebrate ANZAC Day every year with a public holiday, mass and veterans parade. ANZAC day is the day thousands of Australians persihed in Gallipoli Turkey during WWI, yet we celebrate it as a symbol of Australian pride. All humans consider the sacrifice of life for the homeland as a sacred thing.

I haven't entirely excluded the western world in "celebrating death", and you suggesting so is your own failure.
Another several points which make your argument fail terribly.

1) There's quite a difference celebrating the death of soldiers who fought against an army in war, than a terrorist who deliberately suicides \ attacks innocent civilians -- and not even in an open war.
2) ANZAC Day was announced on 1916 during WWI(!!!!!!!) and is not much more than a national custom these days. Basically, you're helping me prove my point, as celebrating death indefinitely mostly belongs to the past and ignorance. Besides, just because that custom is happening doesn't make the custom right.
3) two of the above points in conjunction.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Rainywinter

I haven't entirely excluded the western world in "celebrating death", and you suggesting so is your own failure.
Another several points which make your argument fail terribly.

1) There's quite a difference celebrating the death of soldiers who fought against an army in war, than a terrorist who deliberately suicides \ attacks innocent civilians -- and not even in an open war.
2) ANZAC Day was announced on 1916 during WWI(!!!!!!!) and is not much more than a national custom these days. Basically, you're helping me prove my point, as celebrating death indefinitely mostly belongs to the past and ignorance. Besides, just because that custom is happening doesn't make the custom right.
3) two of the above points in conjunction.

Everybody has a euphemism for one who dies in battle. Lebanese call them martyrs. Americans call them "heroes." Anytime a US soldier dies in Iraq, it's said that they died defending their country, even though that's not actually the case. The United States "celebrates" death.

If you don't want Israeli civilians being attacked I suggest the following:

1. Increase awareness amongst your fellow Israelis about the suffering caused by your government's occupation force.

2. Write a letter to your elected officials (you elected them, they're answerable to you) telling them to stop inflicting suffering upon the occupied inhabitants of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

3. Repeat the process until it works.

Hopefully then, you won't be getting Palestinians bulldozing your people (the same bulldozers used to demolish their homes).

In any case, have a nice day and good luck on the campaigning!

[Rainywinter]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Everybody has a euphemism for one who dies in battle. Lebanese call them martyrs. Americans call them "heroes." Anytime a US soldier dies in Iraq, it's said that they died defending their country, even though that's not actually the case. The United States "celebrates" death.

If you don't want Israeli civilians being attacked I suggest the following:

1. Increase awareness amongst your fellow Israelis about the suffering caused by your government's occupation force.

2. Write a letter to your elected officials (you elected them, they're answerable to you) telling them to stop inflicting suffering upon the occupied inhabitants of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

3. Repeat the process until it works.

Hopefully then, you won't be getting Palestinians bulldozing your people (the same bulldozers used to demolish their homes).

In any case, have a nice day and good luck on the campaigning!

Wow, you're excellent at entirely missing a point, as usually, aren't you? Anyway, you're proven several times in the past you have little interest in what another person writes in his post. Perhaps go through what we've discussed in this thread and enlighten yourself.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by Rainywinter

Wow, you're excellent at entirely missing a point, as usually, aren't you? Anyway, you're proven several times in the past you have little interest in what another person writes in his post. Perhaps go through what we've discussed in this thread and enlighten yourself.

Who said I was interested in acknowledging your point? I was addressing a subtextual detail written in the quoted post with regards to 'terrorists suiciding/attackin civilians.'

In any case, you have a letter to write, I believe.