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  (#21 (permalink)) Old
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Default 1st March 2008

I can't understand how people can have the heart to kill, what do innocent civilans have to do with what governments can't settle for?
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Default 2nd March 2008

Urgent session by the UNSC to discuss the latest "developments" in Gaza.
Mark my words, they will blame both sides.
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Default 3rd March 2008

فشلت عملية التوغل الإسرائيلي شمال قطاع غزة في إيقاف إطلاق الصواريخ على المستوطنات الإسرائيلية، حيث خيمت هواجس فشل حرب تموز على القرار الإسرائيلي وجعلته متردداً في حسم الخيارات الكبرى.
فقد انتهت العملية العسكرية في جباليا في غزة دون إن تتمكن من إيقاف إطلاق الصواريخ على المستوطنات الإسرائيلية ولم تمنع الشدة في استخدام القوة العسكرية والمجازر المقاومة الفلسطينية من مواصلة القصف الصاروخي بل جوبهت العمليات البرية المحدودة بمقاومة شرسة دفعت قيادة العدو إلى التخفيف من جموحها.
ويقول في هذا المجال المحلل العسكري الصهيوني الون بن دافيد: "من الواضح للجيش الإسرائيلي أن إنهاء العملية العسكرية والرد الإسرائيلي يظهر وكأن إسرائيل خسرت المعركة، فلم تؤثر العملية على إطلاق الصواريخ وقد أطلقت حماس صاروخاً جديداً من صنع إيراني لم يستعمل من قبل".
اما ايلا حسون المحللة الاسرائيلية في تلفزيون العدو فقالت: "أعلنت جهات أمنية أن القدرة العسكرية لحماس لم تُكشف بكاملها ولديها صواريخ بعيدة المدى تصل إلى ما بعد بعد عسقلان".
من جهته قال عضو كنيست العدو ووزير الخارجية السابق سيلفان شالوم: "عسقلان أصبحت معرضة للصواريخ واشدود في حالة ترقب وبعد قليل ستصل الصواريخ إلى بئر السبع".
صحيفة يديعوت احرونوت نقلت شهادات جنود شاركوا في معارك جباليا بأن المقاومين الفلسطينيين كانوا أكثر جرأة وأكثر دهاء وتطوراً، وبدوا كجزء من جيش مزودين بعتاد متطور.
وقال ضابط في جيش الاحتلال شارك في المعارك على أطراف جباليا : "القوة الإسرائيلية تلقت ضربة عند دخولها إلى المنطقة وأثناء القتال أصيب عدد من الدبابات بنيران قوية من الصواريخ المضادة وقذائف الهاون".
هواجس حرب لبنان الفاشلة خيَّمت على القرار الإسرائيلي حول الحسم في غزة، وبدا أكثر المتوجِّسين رئيس الحكومة ايهود اولمرت الذي دعا وزراءه الى عدم المبالغة. وعكس موقف اولمرت هذا خشيته من سقف عالٍ من الأهداف كما حصل في حرب لبنان لتظهر إسرائيل بعد ذلك غير قادرة على تحقيق هذه الأهداف وكأنها خسرت هذه الحرب أيضاً.
ويقول في هذا المجال وزير المواصلات في كيان العدو شاؤول موفاز: "علينا اتخاذ قرارات حاسمة ومؤثرة وعلينا تحطيم حماس على المدى البعيد وإيقاف إطلاق الصواريخ على المدى القريب".
رئيس الاستخبارات العسكرية الإسرائيلية الجنرل عاموس يدلين أقرَّ أنَّ إسرائيل هي من فتح المعركة في غزة، ونبَّه إلى أن عدم تدخل إيران وسوريا وحزب الله لا يعني أنَّهم خرجوا من المعركة وهم ينتظرون نتائجها وسيتصرفون وفق هذه النتيجة.
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Default 3rd March 2008

I am reminded of that quote from star wars: “So this is how democracy ends. To thunderous applause.”

So this is how liberty dies. To deafening silence.
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Default 3rd March 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelio View Post
Urgent session by the UNSC to discuss the latest "developments" in Gaza.
Mark my words, they will blame both sides.
No, they will blame only the Palestinians.
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Default 4th March 2008

Quote:
صحيفة يديعوت احرونوت نقلت شهادات جنود شاركوا في معارك جباليا بأن المقاومين الفلسطينيين كانوا أكثر جرأة وأكثر دهاء وتطوراً، وبدوا كجزء من جيش مزودين بعتاد متطور
Poor people, they don't lack the courage, they just lack the means. Hope to see Arab countries burnt to ashes. What a disastrous life. You can't help but feeling deeply hurt, at least while they bombed Lebanon the unarmed had other places to go to; they have nowhere, nothing, and no one :(
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Default Suddenly you woke up - 4th March 2008

For the last seven years Hamas is launching rockets indiscriminately on
Israeli civilians and no one said a thing.

Once we retaliate everybody is jumping.

How come Israeli civiliance are part of the "enemy" and are a legitimate target while Palestinians civiliance are innocent.

If its war then its war. Stop hiding behing the back of the civiliance and cry
for massacre everytime we shoot back.
It would have been much more easier for us to shoot everything and make Gaza a "flat" land, at least we try not to hurt "innocent people"

I am sorry for the lost of lifes of citizens but, as an Israeli, If its me or them .....

How come no one ever condemned Hamas on shooting Israeli civiliance?

The equasion is simple - They will stop shooting - We will stop shooting
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Default 4th March 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by tagidli View Post
For the last seven years Hamas is launching rockets indiscriminately on
Israeli civilians and no one said a thing.

Once we retaliate everybody is jumping.

How come Israeli civiliance are part of the "enemy" and are a legitimate target while Palestinians civiliance are innocent.

If its war then its war. Stop hiding behing the back of the civiliance and cry
for massacre everytime we shoot back.
It would have been much more easier for us to shoot everything and make Gaza a "flat" land, at least we try not to hurt "innocent people"

I am sorry for the lost of lifes of citizens but, as an Israeli, If its me or them .....

How come no one ever condemned Hamas on shooting Israeli civiliance?

The equasion is simple - They will stop shooting - We will stop shooting
Israel occupies Palestinian land and holds more than 10000 hostages in their prisons.....Israel is butchering the Palestinians with or without firing rockets.... Hamas has the right to defend itself....
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  (#29 (permalink)) Old
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Default 4th March 2008

Regarding the claim that Israel occupied the land - when does history start ?
50 years ago ? 100 years ago ? 1000 years ago ?

If I am not mistaken - according to history we were here first
But lets not argue about that

Lets assume that you are correct and Israel is the monster you guys claim it is

Lets also assume that Hamas HA and all other radicals are "angles on earth"
and have every right to shoot on Israeli civilian

How come Israeli civilians are legitimate target and Palestinians civilians are not

Imagine that instead of sending the army Israel would have shoot one
rocket into Gaza city for every rocket Hamas is shooting on our cities
What do you think will be the death toll ?
Isnt that easier for us ?
What do we care who will get heart - we are monsters

Again if its a war (as much as I hate it and believe it or not - I know you dont - we want to live in peace) then its a war between two countries if you like, and hence there is no such thing as innocent (as long as the other side does not respect that)
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Default 6th March 2008

I'd like to reiterate a point:

There is a clear exception with "bombing" each other when it comes to Israel and various Palestinian forces (mostly Hamas) -
while Hamas intentionally and primarily target civilian targets,
Israel does not, however, primarily target civilians.

When Palestinian civilians die, it's an [/b]unfortunate[b] "side-effect" to the fact that Hamas are hiding within civilized territories, and by doing that using them as human shields, which is unfortunate as well.
While I can understand why would they abuse that, being an underpowered minority that would stand no chance fighting openly, you cannot expect Israel to just let them fire rockets at cities and go unscathed.

About who was here first -
although I'm fairly new here, I'm sure this issue has beaten to death a million times. I think it's irrelevant, and I'm pretty confident there will be no agreement on it. Actually, I also think this has little relevance to the situation we're facing these days, when it comes to finding a solution.

On topic (and please try read all of it, because I might tend to stray off now and then to make a point)
Firstly, I'd like to say something-
Quote:
Correspondents say the "holocaust" is a term rarely used in Israel outside discussions of the Nazi genocide during World War II.
Thats a quote from the OP.
That is simply not true. As a healing process, some of you may acknowledge sometimes adapting some tragedies' aspects as slang or using them in black humor would be a known phenomenon.
A good example to that would be how Black people would call each other Niggers.
The word "holocaust" is sometimes used in Israel as a Slang word, and its not that rare, at all. In fact, sometimes people use this on daily basis, and it usually comes to describe having a bad experience or that the outcome was quite unsuccessful, though it can be stretched in many different ways.
For example, you might say "it was holocaust" on a bad weathered trip you had, an unsuccessful job interview and sometimes even on someone's appearance. Sure, its not the most appropriate thing, as many other things, but time passes, new generations uprise and new slang evolves. That's, I suppose, how healing sometimes works.

Now, was it foolish to use this term?
Most certainly.
Was it taken off-context?
Most probably.
Does it diminish the fact that the term "holocaust" was inappropriately used?
No. It was highly inappropriate to use this term, especially in such vigilant reality we're currently facing.
Can it really reflect the reality of what will\won't happen? Was this use of word anywhere near coherent with the text and\or reality?
Most certainly not. The analogy is completely false to begin with.
If anyone thinks it does, I believe they should probably enrich themselves by watching few holocaust documentary movies.
Anyway, it was mentioned all over it was an idiotic slip from his part. No one knowledgeable (in Israel, at least) would agree in using this term in such manner, and I hope most of you understand that.
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