Israel Ranks Behind Kuwait and Lebanon in Press Freedom

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

I have checked them out and I know you're full of s**t. Wait and see on this "robot army"? Are you retarded? Your soldiers can't even beat the young men of Southern Lebanon who are defending their homes from your tanks. Yet you're already talking about robot armies, something the US military, with a budget exponentially larger than your own (although I suspect you are a Lebanese dissident living abroad), has yet to even begin working on seriously?

Your delusions encourage my assumption that Israel will not last much longer. Entities far more powerful and expansive than Israel have fallen in less time. Look at the Soviet Union.

As usual you underestimate Israel, just like the Arabs have been doing for 60 years.

The difference between the Soviet Union and Israel is that Israel is a democracy with an entrepreneurial culture. You ain't seen nothing yet. Outside North America, Israel Israel has the most companies listed on the Nasdaq. All this from a country with 7 million people. And we are just getting into our grove.
Israel has 71 companies on the NASDAQ Stock Exchange; Ireland has 7

Israel was serious about UAVs before the US. It saw their advantages sooner. Israel will have robotic armies before the US because it does not need an army to deploy all over the world. Our enemies our close by, making the system required less costly and much more easy to develop.

[ius]

Originally Posted by LebanonUSA

Yeah you're right. 1960s/1970s Vietnam had better technology, better education and a stronger economy than the US, which is why it won the war.

Same with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan... The Afghans also had better technology, better education, and a stronger economy than the USSR, right?

Of course the Americans won the war in Vietnam. 3 million Vietnamese died and their country became desolated. America was unscathed. It was a "divine victory". Same in Afghanistan that has not recovered yet. And you forget that in Afghanistan it was US technology that defeated the Russians.

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

I would like to take this time to remind ius and all the Zionists on this board:

So much for your "democracy"!

http://www.democracyranking.org/down...me_2008_A4.pdf

Read it and weep.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

The Hamas fighters were guarding the entrance to the tunnel. This is so basic that I wonder why I have to explain this to you.

You have to explain because your government's military (although I suspect that you are a Lebanese dissident living abroad) lies about these things all of the time.

Hamas threatened people not to tell how their houses were rigged with dynamite and how Hamas had men in their houses and dug tunnels under them, thus legitimizing Israeli attacks on those houses.

So, let me get this straight:

Hamas allegedly rigged peoples' homes with "dynamite," which in turn, legitimized them as targets to Israeli air strikes? How does this work? Even if we were to assume that Hamas "rigged houses with dynamite," despite the allegations by the Goldstone report that it was ISRAEL who was using Palestinians as human shields, how does it legitimize strikes on that home?

Furthermore, tunnels take months to build. The Gaza campaign was a surprise attack and mostly an air campaign. How do you know that they dug tunnels under them? Notice how whenever the Zionists attack a civilian property, it is always because it was being used as a staging ground for some sort of offense against Israel, however the Goldstone report shows that Israel attacked civilian targets INDISCRIMINATELY.

Please keep these preposterous propaganda claims in check. The entire world sees through this facade, and it's not going to work here. Come correct with facts and sources or you're going to continue to get humiliated.

As for the rest of your silly rant, it is clear that since you believe Zionism is racism that you are a racist yourself. You would deny the Jews the right for self determination and a state of their own.

You cannot justify the Jews a state on a land already occupied by a people. You are wrong. It is racist to assume that the Palestinians, who had no part in the persecution you suffered in Europe, should pay the price of the Nazi holocaust by granting you a state on their former homes and on the graveyards of their villages. It is you who is racist and notice how in the face of evidence and facts, you do not even TRY to disprove me. You just go back to calling me a racist, antisemite, or whatever you can.

The Palestinians and Arabs did not accept the UN partition resolution of 47. Furthermore, they did not create a state in Gaza and the West Bank between 48 and 67 when Israel was not there. After 67 they refused to negotiate peace. That is why the Palestinians are responsible for their displacement. They had many chances to live in peace with the Jews and they chose not to.

Why in the hell would anybody with pride or dignity accept a deal in which they give away 55% of their own land (the most fertile land when to Israel in this partition, by the way) to a recently arrived set of Europeans? Not to mention that these Jews numbered far less than the Palestinians did. To accept such a deal would be ridiculous and it is inherent that there was a bias against them in partitioning the land from the start.

From '48 to '67, the West Bank and Gaza were under occupation by Jordan and Egypt, respectively. They were still awaiting the day that they could unite the whole country that Israel had stolen. This, unfortunately, did not materialize, which leads us to '67.

Israel has made peace along 1967 borders IMPOSSIBLE with settlement building. The Palestinians can no longer accept a state on 1967 borders because of your wall and settlements which you refuse to give up. This is all documented. Every round of negotiations to build a state on 1967 borders has failed due to Israel's refusal to discontinue settlement building. Ironically, these settlements and the disintegration of the two-state solution will lead to Israel's demise.

I am happy to hear that you are a second generation American. That means your family has been supporting Israel through their taxes for at least two generations. What an irony. Why do you live in the country that is Israel's biggest ally? Do you not feel humiliated?

Where am I supposed to move, you clown? While I regret our foreign policy, there are things about America that I love, and I am as culturally American (if not more) than I am culturally Arab. This country is apart of me, and there are things I hate about it, just like every other citizen of the world hates certain things about the state they are apart of. I don't feel humiliated at all because I am given the opportunity to protest idiots like you to my liking for as long as I want, when I want, and how I want.

Let me ask you again, because you keep on dodging the question:

Are you a racist? If not, how do you reconcile your Zionist/fascist views with your alleged lack of racist views?

Also:

So much for your democracy, Zionist!

[TripolySunni]

The fifth and last decade

By Ari Shavit

The chronicles of stupidity are as follows: In the first decade after the Six-Day War, Israel decided not to decide. It did not heed the warnings of the likes of Yeshayahu Leibowitz, Amos Oz, Uri Avnery and former Labor Party leaders Aryeh Eliav and Yitzhak Ben-Aharon, all of whom immediately understood that the occupation was a trap. Israel believed that the territories were bargaining chips, and that it would be best to hold on to those chips so they could be exchanged for peace. The Israel of Levi Eshkol and Golda Meir did not understand that the temporary situation it created in Judea, Samaria and Gaza was a permanent trap from which it would be very difficult to get out.

In the second decade after the Six-Day War, Israel decided. After the electoral upheaval of 1977, the right-wing governments built around 150 settlements, which were designed to make the occupation irreversible. Even after Likud withdrew from Sinai, the party was determined to prevent an additional evacuation. In an unprecedented display of arrogance, trepidation, and obliviousness to reality, Likudist Israel tried to consolidate its control over the territories, de facto. By employing anachronistic and illegitimate colonialist methods, the Israel of Menachem Begin and Ariel Sharon defied international law and the demographic realities on the ground to swallow large swaths of land it was incapable of digesting. Intoxicated by power and tinged by messianic fervor, it tried to stop Palestinian sovereignty at any price, but in so doing undermined Jewish sovereignty.

In the third decade, Israel underwent a period of sobering up. The first intifada compelled a majority of Israelis to understand that it would be best to leave the territories. Yet Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres chose Oslo as the avenue for trying to leave the territories, an avenue that led to a dead end. Why? Because Oslo relied on the baseless assumption that Yasser Arafat was a partner and that peace was attainable. As a result, the peace process was not rigorous enough with the Palestinians, nor did it take a hard enough line against the settlements. The result was total chaos: On the one hand, we had an armed, hostile and irresponsible Palestinian entity, on the other we had a terrifying settlement enterprise. Instead of the diplomatic process freeing Israel from the noose, it only tightened it further around its neck.
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The fourth decade of the occupation saw Israel sober up from its sobriety. After the failure of Camp David and the eruption of the second intifada, the Israeli majority understood that the occupation and peace were two separate issues. It understood that Israel had to carefully leave the territories, even though such a withdrawal would not end the conflict.

The Israel of Sharon and Ehud Olmert believed in unilateralism. Yet after unilateralism was tried during the disengagement, it became clear that the latest magical solution was an illusory solution. The ascent of Hamas, the Qassam attacks, Operation Cast Lead and the Goldstone report taught us what happens when Israel seeks to disengage: Palestinian extremism strengthens, violence is renewed, and when Israel tries to defend itself, it is singled out. At this late stage of the necrosis, a simplistic unilateral withdrawal does not revive Israeli legitimacy, it erodes it to the bone.

The fifth decade of occupation is the last decade. There is no chance the international community will grant Israel another respite. If we do not quickly find the right way to deal with the occupation, the occupation will bury us. Justly or unjustly, Israel's back is against the wall. Justly or unjustly, the world is showing Israel zero tolerance and giving the country no quarter. If we are once again compelled to employ force, we will be denounced. If we do not seriously deal with the settlements, we will become South Africa.

So Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak have no time. They must act quickly. The option of the first decade (status quo) is not an option. The option of the second decade (settlements) was never an option. The option of the third decade (peace) is an illusion. The option of the fourth decade (unilateralism) is a recipe for disaster.

Thus it is vital to produce within a short time the (sober) option of the fifth decade. Perhaps a limited withdrawal from Samaria. Perhaps a limited withdrawal in exchange for international recognition of an Israeli line of defense and an Israeli right to defend itself within that line. Perhaps a limited withdrawal on condition that Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states assume temporary responsibility for the evacuated territories and their development. However it is done, Netanyahu and Barak must act. They must prove that they are not sitting in their offices to enjoy the trappings of power, but to end four decades of foolishness by ushering in a fifth decade of hope.

The fifth and last decade - Haaretz - Israel News

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

I would like to take this time to remind ius and all the Zionists on this board:

So much for your "democracy"!

Democracy Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the ranking here?
Yes, you know better than the Economist.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

http://www.democracyranking.org/down...me_2008_A4.pdf

Read it and weep.

The Economist's 2008 rating (far more credible than that hack job you posted) lists Israel as a "flawed democracy."

http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/Democrac...dex%202008.pdf

2009 should be far worse considering the recent Gaza campaign and their attempts to ban Arab political parties. Also, your press freedom is lower than several autocratic countries. How does this make you democratic, Zionist?

Once again:

So much for your democracy, Zionist!

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

Democracy Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about the ranking here?
Yes, you know better than the Economist.

The Economist does not list Israel as "democracy." It is a "flawed democracy."

Furthermore, notice how you don't even try to dispute the claims that your country is a democracy for Jews and Jews only. Arabs are treated like second-class citizens which I have already documented and you have not replied to, like the cowardly, sniveling racist you are.

When will you learn, you little racist, you?

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

You have to explain because your government's military (although I suspect that you are a Lebanese dissident living abroad) lies about these things all of the time.



So, let me get this straight:

Hamas allegedly rigged peoples' homes with "dynamite," which in turn, legitimized them as targets to Israeli air strikes? How does this work? Even if we were to assume that Hamas "rigged houses with dynamite," despite the allegations by the Goldstone report that it was ISRAEL who was using Palestinians as human shields, how does it legitimize strikes on that home?

Furthermore, tunnels take months to build. The Gaza campaign was a surprise attack and mostly an air campaign. How do you know that they dug tunnels under them? Notice how whenever the Zionists attack a civilian property, it is always because it was being used as a staging ground for some sort of offense against Israel, however the Goldstone report shows that Israel attacked civilian targets INDISCRIMINATELY.

Please keep these preposterous propaganda claims in check. The entire world sees through this facade, and it's not going to work here. Come correct with facts and sources or you're going to continue to get humiliated.



You cannot justify the Jews a state on a land already occupied by a people. You are wrong. It is racist to assume that the Palestinians, who had no part in the persecution you suffered in Europe, should pay the price of the Nazi holocaust by granting you a state on their former homes and on the graveyards of their villages. It is you who is racist and notice how in the face of evidence and facts, you do not even TRY to disprove me. You just go back to calling me a racist, antisemite, or whatever you can.



Why in the hell would anybody with pride or dignity accept a deal in which they give away 55% of their own land (the most fertile land when to Israel in this partition, by the way) to a recently arrived set of Europeans? Not to mention that these Jews numbered far less than the Palestinians did. To accept such a deal would be ridiculous and it is inherent that there was a bias against them in partitioning the land from the start.

From '48 to '67, the West Bank and Gaza were under occupation by Jordan and Egypt, respectively. They were still awaiting the day that they could unite the whole country that Israel had stolen. This, unfortunately, did not materialize, which leads us to '67.

Israel has made peace along 1967 borders IMPOSSIBLE with settlement building. The Palestinians can no longer accept a state on 1967 borders because of your wall and settlements which you refuse to give up. This is all documented. Every round of negotiations to build a state on 1967 borders has failed due to Israel's refusal to discontinue settlement building. Ironically, these settlements and the disintegration of the two-state solution will lead to Israel's demise.



Where am I supposed to move, you clown? While I regret our foreign policy, there are things about America that I love, and I am as culturally American (if not more) than I am culturally Arab. This country is apart of me, and there are things I hate about it, just like every other citizen of the world hates certain things about the state they are apart of. I don't feel humiliated at all because I am given the opportunity to protest idiots like you to my liking for as long as I want, when I want, and how I want.

Let me ask you again, because you keep on dodging the question:

Are you a racist? If not, how do you reconcile your Zionist/fascist views with your alleged lack of racist views?

Also:

So much for your democracy, Zionist!

You are a racist since you deny the Jews the right to immigrate to their ancestral home. The Arabs were racist. They were against Jewish immigration. All the land pre-48 owned by the Jews was bought. You are racist because only of in the case of Israel would you argue that "dignity" is more important than partition. The partition did not take land from the Arabs. It just made some Arabs part of the Jewish state. They still owned their land. What is the problem with that unless you are racist and have something against Jews? Why is it not dignified to be ruled by Jews, except if you are racist?

Well, if the Palestinians waited between 48 and 67 instead of building their state, it is their fault, not Israel's fault. They should not have waited. They should not have believed that they were going to kick the Jews into the sea. After 67, it took years till the first settlement. During this time, the Palestinians and Arabs refused to discuss peace. Again, clearly their fault.

Back to personal attacks? You really should get a girl friend.

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

The Economist does not list Israel as "democracy." It is a "flawed democracy."

Furthermore, notice how you don't even try to dispute the claims that your country is a democracy for Jews and Jews only. Arabs are treated like second-class citizens which I have already documented and you have not replied to, like the cowardly, sniveling racist you are.

When will you learn, you little racist, you?

Yes, Israel is a flawed democracy. That is excellent for a country fighting a 60 year war and surrounded by enemies. Just compare us to the Arab countries nearby. As for the Israeli Arabs, they have more right on average and are richer than any Lebanese, Syrian, Jordian or Egyptian.

So will you now refer to Israel as a flawed democracy or will you continue being a racist and an antisemite and say it is not a democracy?