Israel Ranks Behind Kuwait and Lebanon in Press Freedom

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

Are you aware that Hamas is accused of war crimes in the Goldstone report?
And all that the report requires is that the parties investigate themselves, a thing only Israel can credibly do? So in a worst case scenario, Israel has an easy way out, but Hamas doesn't.
As usual, you are willing to lose an arm in order to hurt Israel's finger.

How can Israel investigate itself in a "credible" way? Do you think Israel has anymore credibility with anybody?

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas has cooperated with the Goldstone report while Israel has not. Besides, Hamas has little to lose compared to Israel considering Hamas is already considered a pariah on the international stage. Also take into account the magnitude of the allegations. Hamas fired firecracker rockets, Israel was incinerating children with white phosphorus bombs, an illegal chemical weapon. Huge difference.

Of course, to a racist, fascist like yourself, this makes no difference.

For 8 years Hamas have been shooting rockets. These not only put human life in danger, they also brought to a stand still the economic development of the communities located near the Gaza strip. Who is going to invest in a business if it has a chance of being hit by rockets? Israel had to put a stop to the rocket fire, and though there is the occasional rocket, you have to admit that operation Cast Lead was very successful in making Hamas understand that continuance of rockets will be too costly.

You forget that Israel broke the truce with Hamas, which had already stopped these firecracker rockets being launched for several months prior to the Gaza terror campaign:

Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen | World news | guardian.co.uk
UN official says Israel responsible for breaking truce with Gaza - Haaretz - Israel News

So it was actually you barbarians who initiated this attack. Need I mind you that these firecrackers are nothing compared to the siege you have leveled upon all the people in Gaza. You should thank your lucky stars that the poor, dying peasants that you're blockading haven't gotten their hands on megaton warheads like the ones your air force drops on their heads.

Cast Lead was a colossal failure. Do not tout its success. Because of it, your country is becoming an international pariah and the subject of boycotts the world over. Maybe you should take a trip to South Africa to see what your country will become in the next few years. You're going to (gasp) have to be around ARABS!

As for the many more casualties and damage on the Palestinian side, that is only natural. The winning side usually has much less casualties and damage. It has been this way in all of Israel's war. The only people that are to blame for the Palestinian losses are Hamas and their bravado. How quickly you forget their promises that "Gaza will be the graveyard of the IDF". If you can't deliver, shut up and stop the violence that will lead to your demise. All the problems of Gaza are only the Hamas' fault. You want to "resist", be ready to pay the price. Don't complain about the results like cry babies, especially after advertising so much your military capabilities that turned out to be non-existent.

You did not win any wars. Hamas was not destroyed, and nobody expected Hamas to be able to fight against the Israeli wehrmacht effectively. Also remember that Israeli forces largely refused to enter population centers because they knew they would get shredded in house-to-house fighting. This is why you simply bombed civilians instead. It's what you're good at--killing women and children in their homes while they sleep.

Don't cry like babies because our people are getting killed? How about this, why don't you start a campaign to silence the voices of those who decry the holocaust. Hell, while you're at it, why don't you set up a campaign for the acquiescence of ALL war crimes on ALL peoples. That way you can keep this ideology of yours consistent.

By the way, you are a racist fascist, so why should we take you seriously?

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

How can Israel investigate itself in a "credible" way? Do you think Israel has anymore credibility with anybody?

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas has cooperated with the Goldstone report while Israel has not. Besides, Hamas has little to lose compared to Israel considering Hamas is already considered a pariah on the international stage. Also take into account the magnitude of the allegations. Hamas fired firecracker rockets, Israel was incinerating children with white phosphorus bombs, an illegal chemical weapon. Huge difference.

Of course, to a racist, fascist like yourself, this makes no difference.



You forget that Israel broke the truce with Hamas, which had already stopped these firecracker rockets being launched for several months prior to the Gaza terror campaign:

Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen | World news | guardian.co.uk
UN official says Israel responsible for breaking truce with Gaza - Haaretz - Israel News

So it was actually you barbarians who initiated this attack. Need I mind you that these firecrackers are nothing compared to the siege you have leveled upon all the people in Gaza. You should thank your lucky stars that the poor, dying peasants that you're blockading haven't gotten their hands on megaton warheads like the ones your air force drops on their heads.

Cast Lead was a colossal failure. Do not tout its success. Because of it, your country is becoming an international pariah and the subject of boycotts the world over. Maybe you should take a trip to South Africa to see what your country will become in the next few years. You're going to (gasp) have to be around ARABS!



You did not win any wars. Hamas was not destroyed, and nobody expected Hamas to be able to fight against the Israeli wehrmacht effectively. Also remember that Israeli forces largely refused to enter population centers because they knew they would get shredded in house-to-house fighting. This is why you simply bombed civilians instead. It's what you're good at--killing women and children in their homes while they sleep.

Don't cry like babies because our people are getting killed? How about this, why don't you start a campaign to silence the voices of those who decry the holocaust. Hell, while you're at it, why don't you set up a campaign for the acquiescence of ALL war crimes on ALL peoples. That way you can keep this ideology of yours consistent.

By the way, you are a racist fascist, so why should we take you seriously?

Your alligator tears are hilarious. When hundreds of millions Arabs attacked 500,000 Jews, that was a fair fight according to you. Of course you, also believe that Israel lost the war of 1948. Israel also lost in 56, 67, 73, 82, and especially 2006 and 2009. Yeah, right. They were all "divine Arab victories".

Hamas are a world pariah for a good reason. They, unlike Israel, really commit war crimes. They shoot rockets at civilian targets without being able to control where the rockets land.

The Gazans and Hamas were sure that they could inflict serious injuries on the IDF in Gaza. They were wrong. The IDF went very deep into the Gaza strip which is almost all densely populated, giving Hamas every opportunity to attack them. But Hamas after several initial failures faded out of sight, with many of its leaders hiding in Shifa hospital. Their walk did not match their talk. Which applies to you also.

[General-Specific]

Originally Posted by ius

Your alligator tears are hilarious. When hundreds of millions Arabs attacked 500,000 Jews, that was a fair fight according to you. Of course you, also believe that Israel lost the war of 1948. Israel also lost in 56, 67, 73, 82, and especially 2006 and 2009. Yeah, right. They were all "divine Arab victories".

Hamas are a world pariah for a good reason. They, unlike Israel, really commit war crimes. They shoot rockets at civilian targets without being able to control where the rockets land.

The Gazans and Hamas were sure that they could inflict serious injuries on the IDF in Gaza. They were wrong. The IDF went very deep into the Gaza strip which is almost all densely populated, giving Hamas every opportunity to attack them. But Hamas after several initial failures faded out of sight, with many of its leaders hiding in Shifa hospital. Their walk did not match their talk. Which applies to you also.

went deep???

they did not step in populated areas, they only entered the desert parts.

Palestinians were killed with Phosphorus and advanced bombs, not with bullets.
Getting into the populated areas would mean a fight similar to israel in Beirut, where they lasted 24 hours before saying on lound speakers "we are leaving do not shoot at us" in arabic, my dad has it recorded on an old film.

It took them 3 days to reach Beirut's borders but couldn't enter Beirut itself.

anyway, Israelis have always been cowards, that's why they retreated from south Lebanon.
I mean HA with their inferior weapons stand against them, but imagine if it was the opposite. How many Israelis love to die for their country? if they did they wouldn't have left Lebanon because they were getting killed.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

Your alligator tears are hilarious. When hundreds of millions Arabs attacked 500,000 Jews, that was a fair fight according to you. Of course you, also believe that Israel lost the war of 1948. Israel also lost in 56, 67, 73, 82, and especially 2006 and 2009. Yeah, right. They were all "divine Arab victories".

I suggest you look at the statistics of 1948. Jewish terrorists outnumbered the Palestinians in both manpower and weapons. Do not perpetuate this myth that you were flooded by a sea of Arabs.

Can you tell me how Hamas lost the "war" of 2009? I don't see how it could have lost considering it withstood the most brutal siege/attack in Palestinian history.

Just to make sure that you understand this at least: you were HUMILIATED by the Lebanese in 2006. I cannot think of the last time a force that was so outmatched (on paper) so categorically humiliated the stronger force. Your government (although I suspect you're actually a Lebanese dissident living abroad) fired off a million cluster bombs into south Lebanon out of frustration. You added "especially" to the victories of 06 and 09 because these are particularly painful for you to swallow. They showed you that your military might cannot break the will of the Lebanese or the Palestinians. You threw everything and the kitchen sink at Hamas, yet you still couldn't topple the people of Gaza. You bombed civilians, used chemical weapons, slaughtered mothers with their children at gunpoint, and destroyed the entire infrastructure of Gaza, yet they still stand defiant. What does this tell you about the longevity of Israel? Do you think Israel, which is built on lies, deceit, murder, and ethnic cleansing, is going to survive in the face of the absolute justice manifested in the will/determination/drive of the people of Gaza?

I suggest you book a flight to South Africa during the holiday season and take notes. It should be very informative.

Hamas are a world pariah for a good reason. They, unlike Israel, really commit war crimes. They shoot rockets at civilian targets without being able to control where the rockets land.

Yes, Hamas shoots their firecracker rockets at Israeli civilians the same way the Israelis block food, medicine, and water to the people of Gaza. The same way you've destroyed generations with your occupation, murder, and ethnic cleansing campaigns. When will you realize that your ideology will not last? You have to keep killing, and killing, and starving, and torturing, and lying, and stealing just to keep this racist Zionist dream alive. When will you give it all up and just accept the fact that justice always prevails in the end?

The Gazans and Hamas were sure that they could inflict serious injuries on the IDF in Gaza. They were wrong. The IDF went very deep into the Gaza strip which is almost all densely populated, giving Hamas every opportunity to attack them. But Hamas after several initial failures faded out of sight, with many of its leaders hiding in Shifa hospital. Their walk did not match their talk. Which applies to you also.

This is a categorical lie. Israeli ground forces NEVER entered the population centers because they learned that their ground forces cannot fight house-to-house after the humiliation of Lebanon in 2006. This is why you chose to bomb mothers and their children in their homes instead, and this is why your leaders will officially be war criminals in due time.

I would also like to point out to everybody all of the things that ius has ignored after being proven wrong:

1. he was proven wrong about the cessation of rocket fire when I mentioned it was actually Israel that broke the truce. He promptly shut up and did not even try to bring this point back up.

2. He did not acknowledge that Hamas has cooperated with the UN on the Goldstone report while Israel has not. He promptly shut up about this.

3. He did not mention that Israel used chemical weapons on children when I brought it up. He chose, instead, to promptly shut up.

4. He did not answer the question on whether or not he was a racist. I think this is a very important question to ask, so I will ask again: ius, are you a racist? If not, how do you reconcile your Zionist fascism with this supposed absence of racist beliefs?

5. He shut up promptly when I compared Palestinian suffering the Jewish suffering during the holocaust.

[Zayn]

I almost forgot to mention:

To ius, and all the Zionists on this board:

So much for your "democracy"!

[ius]

Originally Posted by General-Specific

went deep???

they did not step in populated areas, they only entered the desert parts.

Palestinians were killed with Phosphorus and advanced bombs, not with bullets.
Getting into the populated areas would mean a fight similar to israel in Beirut, where they lasted 24 hours before saying on lound speakers "we are leaving do not shoot at us" in arabic, my dad has it recorded on an old film.

It took them 3 days to reach Beirut's borders but couldn't enter Beirut itself.

anyway, Israelis have always been cowards, that's why they retreated from south Lebanon.
I mean HA with their inferior weapons stand against them, but imagine if it was the opposite. How many Israelis love to die for their country? if they did they wouldn't have left Lebanon because they were getting killed.

Yes, Israelis are cowards. How do you explain Israel's military successes then? Can you even imagine how bad the Arabs have to be if an army of cowards defeats them?

I supported Israel leaving Lebanon in 2000 because I believed the international community that this will end all violence on the Lebanese-Israeli border. I was of course naive and stupid. Next time Israel holds Lebanese land, it will only be returned for a peace agreement and there will not be unilateral withdrawal.

What you don't understand is that war is not a soldier against a soldier. It is nation against nation. The nation that has better technology, better education and a stronger economy will always win in the end. That is why Israel is so successful. You want to beat Israel, improve those issues in your society.

Israel is one of the world leaders in UAVs. Even Russia bought them from us (the only weapons Russia purchased abroad since WWII). Israel is among the world leaders in nanotechnology. In a decade or two, we will be fielding robotic armies. As the Americans say: You ain't seen nothing yet.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

Yes, Israelis are cowards. How do you explain Israel's military successes then? Can you even imagine how bad the Arabs have to be if an army of cowards defeats them?

I supported Israel leaving Lebanon in 2000 because I believed the international community that this will end all violence on the Lebanese-Israeli border. I was of course naive and stupid. Next time Israel holds Lebanese land, it will only be returned for a peace agreement and there will not be unilateral withdrawal.

What you don't understand is that war is not a soldier against a soldier. It is nation against nation. The nation that has better technology, better education and a stronger economy will always win in the end. That is why Israel is so successful. You want to beat Israel, improve those issues in your society.

Israel is one of the world leaders in UAVs. Even Russia bought them from us (the only weapons Russia purchased abroad since WWII). Israel is among the world leaders in nanotechnology. In a decade or two, we will be fielding robotic armies. As the Americans say: You ain't seen nothing yet.

Silly Zionist, when will you learn that military might cannot save Israel? I am typing this as I laugh at your "robotic armies" statement. You're really into outright lying about these so-called Israeli "achievements," aren't you?

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

I suggest you look at the statistics of 1948. Jewish terrorists outnumbered the Palestinians in both manpower and weapons. Do not perpetuate this myth that you were flooded by a sea of Arabs.

Can you tell me how Hamas lost the "war" of 2009? I don't see how it could have lost considering it withstood the most brutal siege/attack in Palestinian history.

Just to make sure that you understand this at least: you were HUMILIATED by the Lebanese in 2006. I cannot think of the last time a force that was so outmatched (on paper) so categorically humiliated the stronger force. Your government (although I suspect you're actually a Lebanese dissident living abroad) fired off a million cluster bombs into south Lebanon out of frustration. You added "especially" to the victories of 06 and 09 because these are particularly painful for you to swallow. They showed you that your military might cannot break the will of the Lebanese or the Palestinians. You threw everything and the kitchen sink at Hamas, yet you still couldn't topple the people of Gaza. You bombed civilians, used chemical weapons, slaughtered mothers with their children at gunpoint, and destroyed the entire infrastructure of Gaza, yet they still stand defiant. What does this tell you about the longevity of Israel? Do you think Israel, which is built on lies, deceit, murder, and ethnic cleansing, is going to survive in the face of the absolute justice manifested in the will/determination/drive of the people of Gaza?

I suggest you book a flight to South Africa during the holiday season and take notes. It should be very informative.



Yes, Hamas shoots their firecracker rockets at Israeli civilians the same way the Israelis block food, medicine, and water to the people of Gaza. The same way you've destroyed generations with your occupation, murder, and ethnic cleansing campaigns. When will you realize that your ideology will not last? You have to keep killing, and killing, and starving, and torturing, and lying, and stealing just to keep this racist Zionist dream alive. When will you give it all up and just accept the fact that justice always prevails in the end?



This is a categorical lie. Israeli ground forces NEVER entered the population centers because they learned that their ground forces cannot fight house-to-house after the humiliation of Lebanon in 2006. This is why you chose to bomb mothers and their children in their homes instead, and this is why your leaders will officially be war criminals in due time.

I would also like to point out to everybody all of the things that ius has ignored after being proven wrong:

1. he was proven wrong about the cessation of rocket fire when I mentioned it was actually Israel that broke the truce. He promptly shut up and did not even try to bring this point back up.

2. He did not acknowledge that Hamas has cooperated with the UN on the Goldstone report while Israel has not. He promptly shut up about this.

3. He did not mention that Israel used chemical weapons on children when I brought it up. He chose, instead, to promptly shut up.

4. He did not answer the question on whether or not he was a racist. I think this is a very important question to ask, so I will ask again: ius, are you a racist? If not, how do you reconcile your Zionist fascism with this supposed absence of racist beliefs?

5. He shut up promptly when I compared Palestinian suffering the Jewish suffering during the holocaust.

1. Hamas was digging a tunnel to attack Israel. While Israel was closing the tunnel, the Hamas fighters were killed. It was in fact Hamas that was breaking the cease fire by diffing the tunnel.

2. Hamas in fact threatened any Palestinian that wanted to give evidence supporting Israel. That is how they cooperated with the report.

3. It is such a ridiculous accusation that there is no need dignifying it with a response.

4. Are you a sexually frustrated leftist Arab living in the US and helping Israel by paying taxes? Is that why you hate Israel? Why do you live in the country that most supports Israel instead of Iran? Why is that? Or are you an antisemite because you cannot handle the success of the Jews relative to the Arabs? Please explain in detail.

See 3 regarding you question.

5. Victimhood is not a concept I support. Looking back helps no-one. The Palestinians and Arabs are victims of their own bad choices and they have only themselves to blame. I cannot revive my family that died in the holocaust, I can only make sure it never happens again.

HUMILIATION for you and for me is a completely different concept. I would feel humiliated not being to provide my children with a good future. I would feel humiliated if my country was not technologically advanced. I would be humiliated if my country's economy sucked. I would feel humiliated if there was no rule of law in my country. Why would I feel humiliated about Israel fighting a war without good planning and in spite of that being able to make sure that since the war, the Lebanese - Israeli border has never been more quiet? HA did not do anything even during the Gaza war and have not avenged Mugniyeh. In retrospect, the war was very successful for Israel. In fact, it looks like it will provide years of peace on the border.

[ius]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Silly Zionist, when will you learn that military might cannot save Israel? I am typing this as I laugh at your "robotic armies" statement. You're really into outright lying about these so-called Israeli "achievements," aren't you?

You think I am lying? Wait and see. As for the other facts, check them out.

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by ius

1. Hamas was digging a tunnel to attack Israel. While Israel was closing the tunnel, the Hamas fighters were killed. It was in fact Hamas that was breaking the cease fire by diffing the tunnel.

This is another lie. Apparently you do not hesitate to parrot your Zionist propaganda and blatantly lie to try and prove your point. Tell me, Zionist, if these Palestinians were supposedly building a tunnel at the time of the Israeli attack, how is it that the fighting took place outside of this tunnel? Furthermore, how many times has Israeli propaganda already lied (and been caught)? Do you think your government's military (although I suspect you are a Lebanese dissident living abroad) has any credibility?

2. Hamas in fact threatened any Palestinian that wanted to give evidence supporting Israel. That is how they cooperated with the report.

Evidence supporting Israel on what? What evidence could a Gazan give to the UN that would undermine Hamas? Hamas has already been accused of war crimes and is cooperating with the report. Are you at the point now where you're replying for the sake of replying? You are no longer giving me logical arguments.

3. It is such a ridiculous accusation that there is no need dignifying it with a response.

Answer this: did Israel use white phosphorus on Gazans or not? I will show you evidence to back up my claims. You must now give me evidence to show me that your military did not bomb boys and girls with chemical weapons:

Human Rights Watch reveals extent of Israel's phosphorus use in Gaza | World news | guardian.co.uk
Spent shells prove Israeli use of white phosphorus, Gaza doctors say - Times Online
Israel: White Phosphorus Use Evidence of War Crimes | Human Rights Watch
Gaza film shows white phosphorus from alleged Israeli attack | World news | guardian.co.uk
Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Israel 'using white phosphorus'

If you would like more evidence substantiating this "ridiculous assertion that does not warrant an answer," please let me know. I will be glad to supply it. The next time you want to deny your government's war crimes (although I suspect you are a Lebanese dissident living abroad), please supply some facts. That way you won't be made out to look like a racist, bloodthirsty lunatic.

4. Are you a sexually frustrated leftist Arab living in the US and helping Israel by paying taxes?

I see that you are clearly rattled given that you are giving into personal attacks. Notice how you first decide to attack me before addressing assertions that you are a racist. I suspect that you are getting very worked up about these assertions, you little racist, you.

Is that why you hate Israel? Why do you live in the country that most supports Israel instead of Iran? Why is that? Or are you an antisemite because you cannot handle the success of the Jews relative to the Arabs? Please explain in detail.

I am a second-generation American citizen. I have citizenship in no other country on this planet. I have no choice over who our politicians support, but I do speak out in favor of Israeli boycott, which I think more than offsets my unwilling contributions to Israel via my tax dollars.

You're accusing me of antisemitism now? I see that you're clearly frustrated. I could care less about Jewish achievement. I just want them to stop killing Palestinians. Is that too much to ask for, you little racist, you?

I will ask you again, ius, since you seem to be dodging this question:

Are you a racist or not? If not, how do you reconcile your Zionist, fascist views with this alleged lack of racist motivations?

See 3 regarding you question.

Zionism is racism. I will give you some examples from INSIDE Israel:

'Racist' marriage law upheld by Israel - Middle East, World - The Independent
New Israel Fund:*Arab Sector: NIF Grantees Fight Discrimination in Arab Education
Vigilantes Patrol For Jewish Women Dating Arab Men : NPR
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5920555.ece
Shulamit Aloni: Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel
Anti-Arab Israeli Party Surges - WSJ.com
Ethiopian community hit hard by discrimination - Israel News, Ynetnews

And of course, the grand UN resolution officially decreeing Zionism as Racism:

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note, this resolution was repealed in the 90s following the Oslo agreement as a reward to Israel for finally entering negotiations with the Palestinians. Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli signatory to Oslo was later assassinated by a Zionist, Jewish extremist. This is not to say that Oslo or Rabin were good, but it just shows you the extent to how racist Israeli society is.

If you want some more sources, please let me know. I will be glad to supply you with them, you little racist, you.

5. Victimhood is not a concept I support. Looking back helps no-one.

This is funny because your government (although I suspect you are a Lebanese dissident living abroad) constantly exploits the holocaust and has justified its existence based on victimization suffered in Europe. So, by definition, you do not agree with the establishment of Israel on the basis of victimization? Let me guess, you agree only with the legitimacy of Israel on racist grounds, right? You just fell for a trap, dumbass. Try to look harder next time.

The Palestinians and Arabs are victims of their own bad choices and they have only themselves to blame. I cannot revive my family that died in the holocaust, I can only make sure it never happens again.

The Palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust. Can you please tell me, in depth or concisely, how Palestinians are to blame for their own displacement and occupation? I cannot wait for you to post your rationale so I can pick it apart and embarrass you even further. Apparently you are immune to being humiliated on a message board, which leads us to our next bit of wisdom below:

HUMILIATION for you and for me is a completely different concept. I would feel humiliated not being to provide my children with a good future. I would feel humiliated if my country was not technologically advanced. I would be humiliated if my country's economy sucked. I would feel humiliated if there was no rule of law in my country. Why would I feel humiliated about Israel fighting a war without good planning and in spite of that being able to make sure that since the war, the Lebanese - Israeli border has never been more quiet? HA did not do anything even during the Gaza war and have not avenged Mugniyeh. In retrospect, the war was very successful for Israel. In fact, it looks like it will provide years of peace on the border.

Exactly, now you understand why Palestinians fight your occupation, which seeks to strip those same Palestinians of the land and livelihood required to give their children the best lives they can and become technologically advanced. Indeed, the fight against humiliation is the driving force behind the Palestinian national spirit. Congrats, you've tripped over yourself again in trying to establish some sort of Israeli monopoly on pride or something.

Yes, also, after the war, Hizballah is far more strong than it was before it, and Israel will now think twice of launching a campaign into Lebanon again. Also consider the fact that it has been humiliated time and time again in hostage exchanges and is giving up Ghajar. You ignore all of this however.

The avenging of Mughniyeh will take time. You have to remember, Hizballah does not have the support of a superpower so it's going to take a little longer.

Just wanted to add, because I know this stings for you:

So much for your "democracy," Zionist!