advanced search
Contact Us tayyar.org
 
The Orange Room - forum.tayyar.org
 



Notices
Regional and International Politics Discuss anything related to Regional and International politics, from Arab-Israeli Conflict to US Presidency Elections

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,109
Thanks: 849
Thanked 307 Times in 258 Posts
Last Online: 8 Hours Ago
Join Date: Sun Feb 2008
View Salome's Photo Album
Default 13th June 2009

When I heard that the voting hours were extended I knew it will mean a clear victory for Ahmedinejad....anyway anybody expected something else?

Question is how all those youngsters would take it who wanted a change in leadership, would they stand up for their demands?
Sponsored Links
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
TripolySunni's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,065
Thanks: 338
Thanked 357 Times in 283 Posts
Last Online: 4 Days Ago
Join Date: Thu Jun 2008
View TripolySunni's Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salome View Post
When I heard that the voting hours were extended I knew it will mean a clear victory for Ahmedinejad....anyway anybody expected something else?

Question is how all those youngsters would take it who wanted a change in leadership, would they stand up for their demands?
Nope they won't.
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Ana3arabi!'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 510
Thanks: 431
Thanked 91 Times in 72 Posts
Last Online: 2nd July 2009
Join Date: Tue May 2008
View Ana3arabi!'s Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

I am very happy that Pres. Ahmadinejad won. He would do Iran more good than Mousavi , because he has given Iran a more forceful position regionally and internationally and now Iran is a very strong country that does not play second fiddle to anyone and does not bow to others' demands, whereas if the so-called "reformist" had won, this would've happened and there would've been lots of giveaways of Iran's rights without anything in return, in the name of wooing america.... and wooing america would not have produced a result because we all know in whose pocket america is to begin with..

what i find ridiculous is that people who would've said the elections are free and fair if Moussavi had won , are now singing an opposite tune and claiming it was pre-arranged. What a ridiculous thing to do, judge elections' fairness based on the results. It shows the west has bad intentions and doesn't know a thing about Iran. Fact is, Iran is not just Tehran. Iran is Shiraz, it is Esfahan, it is Yazd, it is Baluchistan, it is the poor, conservative villages and towns all over the country where Pres. Ahmadinejad also has strong support. Just because all you see on TV is well-dressed supporters of Moussavi does not mean Moussavi has more support.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ana3arabi! For This Useful Post:
LebReporter (14th June 2009), Xguy (14th June 2009)
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
punkgirlie16's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 228
Thanks: 68
Thanked 40 Times in 31 Posts
Last Online: 4 Weeks Ago
Join Date: Fri Mar 2008
View punkgirlie16's Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

it seems it is not over yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana3arabi! View Post
because we all know in whose pocket america is to begin with..
well i for one do not, thank you. in whose pockets is it?
  (#15 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Ana3arabi!'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 510
Thanks: 431
Thanked 91 Times in 72 Posts
Last Online: 2nd July 2009
Join Date: Tue May 2008
View Ana3arabi!'s Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkgirlie16 View Post
it seems it is not over yet.
What is not over? Pres. Ahmadinejad won, and he did not just win, he won a landslide. :) 63% of the vote. There wasn't even the need for 2nd round unlike previous times. :)

Quote:
well i for one do not, thank you. in whose pockets is it?
isra2il's.
  (#16 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Learned's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 821
Thanks: 23
Thanked 189 Times in 102 Posts
Last Online: 31st August 2009
Join Date: Thu Aug 2006
View Learned's Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Wishful thinking from Tehran
Abbas Barzegar
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 13 June 2009 11.40 BST

I have been in Iran for exactly one week covering the 2009 Iranian election carnival. Since I arrived, few here doubted that the incumbent firebrand President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad would win. My airport cab driver reminded me that the president had visited every province twice in the last four years – "Iran isn't Tehran," he said. Even when I asked Mousavi supporters if their man could really carry more than capital, their responses were filled with an Obamasque provisional optimism – "Yes we can", "I hope so", "If you vote." So the question occupying the international media, "How did Mousavi lose?" seems to be less a problem of the Iranian election commission and more a matter of bad perception rooted in the stubborn refusal to understand the role of religion in Iran.

Of course, the rather real possibility of voter fraud exists and one must wait in the coming weeks to see how these allegations unfold. But one should recall that in three decades of presidential elections, the accusations of rigging have rarely been levied against the vote count. Elections here are typically controlled by banning candidates from the start or closing opposition newspapers in advance.

In this election moreover, there were two separate governmental election monitors in addition to observers from each camp to prevent mass voter fraud. The sentimental implausibility of Ahmedinejad's victory that Mousavi's supporters set forth as the evidence of state corruption must be met by the equal implausibility that such widespread corruption could take place under clear daylight. So, until hard evidence emerges that can substantiate the claims of the opposition camp we need to look to other reasons to explain why so many are stunned by the day's events.

As far as international media coverage is concerned, it seems that wishful thinking got the better of credible reporting. It is true that Mousavi supporters jammed Tehran traffic for hours every night over the last week, though it was rarely mentioned that they did so only in the northern well-to-do neighborhoods of the capital. Women did relax their head covers and young men did dance in the street.

On Monday night at least 100,000 of the former prime minister's supporters set up a human chain across Tehran. But, hours before I had attended a mass rally for the incumbent president that got little to no coverage in the western press because, on account of the crowds, he never made it inside the hall to give his speech. Minimal estimates from that gathering have been placed at 600,000 (enthusiasts say a million). From the roof I watched as the veiled women and bearded men of all ages poured like lava.

But the failure to properly gauge Iran's affairs is hardly a new phenomenon. When the 1979 revolution shattered the military dictatorship of America's strongest ally in the region few experts outside of the country suspected that the Islamic current would emerge as the leading party.

But in Iran, even the secular intellectual Jalal Al-e Ahmad, author of the infamous Occidentosis predicted the collapse of the regime at the hands of Islamic movement well over a decade before the fateful events of 1979. The maverick French philosopher, Michel Foucault, also made the right bet as he reported the events from the street – an insight that his many admirers still shy from. Since the revolution, academics, intellectuals and pundits have predicted the imminent collapse of the regime. As of today, they have done no better.

Such anomalies can only be explained by a longue duree. Iran is a deeply religious society. Of the Shah's mistakes nepotism, autocracy, and repression were fought by communists and liberals for decades with no success, but it was his attack on the religious establishment that led to his almost overnight demise.

Since then common Iranians have applied their ideals through the ballot box. In 1997 as the ashes of the Iran-Iraq war settled and the country saw a decade relative stability, voters came out in mass to support the former president-cleric Khatami against his rival, Natiq Nouri, a senior member of the establishment. Western reporters saw this in terms of a grand generational divide: young freedom loving liberals against elder conservative clerics. But it was really a vote for the ideal of honesty and piety against allegations of entrenched corruption. Many of those same Khatami supporters voted for Ahmedinejad yesterday, despite the fact that Khatami's face was on every one of Mousavi's campaign posters.

For over a week the same social impulses of anti-corruption, populism, and religious piety that led to the revolution have been on the streets available to anyone who wanted to report on them. Ahmedinejad, for most in the country, embodies those ideals. Since he came into office he has refused to wear a suit, refused to move out of the home he inherited from his father, and has refused to tone down the rhetoric he uses against those he accuses of betraying the nation. When he openly accused his towering rival, Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanji, a lion of the revolution himself, of parasitical corruption and compared his betrayal to the alleged deception against the Prophet Muhammad that led to the Sunni-Shia split 1,400 years ago, he unleashed a popular impulse that has held the imagination of the masses here for generations. That Rafsanji defended himself through Mousavi's newspaper meant the end for the reformists.

In the last week Ahmedinejad turned the election into a referendum on the very project of Iran's Islamic revolution. Their street chants yelled "Death to all those against the Supreme Leader" followed by traditional Shia rituals and elegies. It was no match for the high-spirited fun-loving youth of northern Tehran who sang "Ahmedi-bye-bye, Ahmedi-bye-bye" or "ye hafte-do hafte, Mahmud hamum na-rafte" (One week, two weeks, Mahmoud hasn't taken a shower).

Perhaps from the start Mousavi was destined to fail as he hoped to combine the articulate energies of the liberal upper class with the business interests of the bazaar merchants. The Facebook campaigns and text-messaging were perfectly irrelevant for the rural and working classes who struggle to make a day's ends meet, much less have the time to review the week's blogs in an internet cafe. Although Mousavi tried to appeal to such classes by addressing the problems of inflation and poverty, they voted otherwise.

In the future, observers would do us a favour by taking a deeper look into Iranian society, giving us a more accurate picture of the very organic religious structures of the country, and dispensing with the narrative of liberal inevitability. It is the religious aspects of enigmatic Persia that helped put an 80-year-old exiled ascetic at the head of state 30 years ago, then the charismatic cleric Khatami in office 12 years ago, the honest son of a blacksmith – Ahmedinejad – four years ago, and the same yesterday.

• Abbas Barzegar is a PhD candidate in religious studies at Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...ranian-election
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Learned For This Useful Post:
Ana3arabi! (14th June 2009), Frisbeetarian (14th June 2009), LebReporter (14th June 2009)
  (#17 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
punkgirlie16's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 228
Thanks: 68
Thanked 40 Times in 31 Posts
Last Online: 4 Weeks Ago
Join Date: Fri Mar 2008
View punkgirlie16's Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana3arabi! View Post
What is not over? Pres. Ahmadinejad won, and he did not just win, he won a landslide. :) 63% of the vote. There wasn't even the need for 2nd round unlike previous times. :)


isra2il's.
1 well i heard musavi is calling for a "celebration of victory" into the streets today night. we will see.

2 and israel is the eternal enemy of iran? seems very much not to be, to me, ya ana3arabi.
  (#18 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Ana3arabi!'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 510
Thanks: 431
Thanked 91 Times in 72 Posts
Last Online: 2nd July 2009
Join Date: Tue May 2008
View Ana3arabi!'s Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkgirlie16 View Post
1 well i heard musavi is calling for a "celebration of victory" into the streets today night. we will see.
With all due respect to Mr. Mousavi, his personal declaration of victory is meaningless, for the ballot boxes have spoken. If he and his supporters dare do anything against the Iranian republic, they will be swiftly taken care of. He lost, let him go home and try in another couple of years. That is the spirit of democracy. But contrary to what the world portrays things, it is those supported by the west that do not accept elections results if they are not in their favor, and not us. It is the same in Lebanon (if we had won in Lebanon, the other team wouldn't have accepted defeat as we have done). It was the same in West Bank & Gaza (Fateh did not accept defeat in free and fair elections as certified by EU). It is the same in Iran, with Moussavi colluding with the american and israeli enemies to hurt the safety and security of the Iranian state and its people. Moussavi would be stupid to do such a thing, as that will surely, and rightly, land him in prison.

Quote:
2 and israel is the eternal enemy of iran? seems very much not to be, to me, ya ana3arabi.
Yes, it is. It is the eternal enemy of every decent human being, whether in Iran or anywhere else in the world. And so long as america is in isra2il's pockets, so will america be the eternal enemy of any decent human being.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ana3arabi! For This Useful Post:
LebReporter (14th June 2009), Robin Hood (21st June 2009), Xguy (14th June 2009)
  (#19 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
Ana3arabi!'s Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 510
Thanks: 431
Thanked 91 Times in 72 Posts
Last Online: 2nd July 2009
Join Date: Tue May 2008
View Ana3arabi!'s Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Also, as the article rightly points out, it is the rich that support Moussavi. The world wanted to make it look like all of Tehran, the most populous city in Iran, was overwhelmingly supportive of Moussavi. Being loud and cheering on the streets is not an indication of what is in the ballot boxes. In the same way that the number of Christian votes received by Ouwwet and Kataeb is not proportional to the volume of the noises they make.
  (#20 (permalink)) Old
Registered Member
 
MaKhassak's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 64
Thanks: 34
Thanked 29 Times in 19 Posts
Last Online: 1 Week Ago
Join Date: Sun Apr 2009
View MaKhassak's Photo Album
Default 14th June 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana3arabi! View Post
I am very happy that Pres. Ahmadinejad won. He would do Iran more good than Mousavi .
I m sure u mean he d do HA more good than mousavi, b c a majority of iranians seem to think that this cowboy president that they have is the worst thing that could have happened to them, the iranian economy is crumbling b/c najad is too busy using the revenues of the country to build weapons or help shiaa parties across the region.

It was the iranian youth that brought the mullahs to power and hopefully they will kick them out again.
Closed Thread

  The Orange Room - forum.tayyar.org The Orange Room Main Forums Regional and International Politics

Tags
elections, iranian


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Forums Directory