History of the palestinian-israeli conflict

[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Constant target of Arab anti-Semitism? You mean Arabs also hated themselves? Your argument is baseless and illogical. As we are also Semites. You argument that Arab riots against Jews were spurred out of anti-Semitism has no logical or argumentative basis. You only seem to focus on what happened, never on why it happened or the circumstances for it hapening; the reason why i am dissapointed with you. Because you fail to critically analyse everything and it seems that im just wasting my time by procuring and validating my point through heavy reference and citations while you only seem to be talking out of your *** and with a very narrow uncultured and uneducated perspective.

Zionism by its definition always required a nation for the Jews. This sole piece of information clears the point that the sole intent of Zionism was to take part of what was sovereign land and colonize it, under the pretext given in my above post (reasons which do not stand close scrutiny). Now, you want to go in take away land from indegineous population and proclaim you want equality and peace. By all measure of stupidity Sir, that is pure ******** and an insult to anyone's intelligence.

No the Argument is Not at all that illogical for an Israeli Chap, After all they accuse thier intellectuals of being "Self-Loathing jews" so it wouldn't be weird if they accuse Arabs of being "Self-Hating Semites".

[proIsrael-nonIsraeli]

Originally Posted by Republican

Is it Arabs or Muslims that were targeting the Jews? There is a difference.

Not to a Jew living in Arab country.

Originally Posted by Republican

And for your information, it was the other way around, Jews were persecuted by "Christians" in Europe.

We are not talking about European anti-Semites at this moment. We are talking about Arab/Muslim anti-Semites. Please, follow the conversation.

[proIsrael-nonIsraeli]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Constant target of Arab anti-Semitism? You mean Arabs also hated themselves? Your argument is baseless and illogical. As we are also Semites. You argument that Arab riots against Jews were spurred out of anti-Semitism has no logical or argumentative basis. You only seem to focus on what happened, never on why it happened or the circumstances for it hapening; the reason why i am dissapointed with you. Because you fail to critically analyse everything and it seems that im just wasting my time by procuring and validating my point through heavy reference and citations while you only seem to be talking out of your *** and with a very narrow uncultured and uneducated perspective.

Do not get preoccupied with the term. Concentrate on an intent and an action.
Expression "Anti-Semitism" did not not exist in Arabic or Hebrew. It came from Europe and if has nothing to do with you writing from right to left. Those are just few hints for you. Feel free to fill in the remaining blanks.
If you still cannot do or do not want to do it then just accept what I said.
If you do not want to do that too then I suggest we replace "anti-Semitism"
with "Jew hatred" everywhere in my post and be done with this particular argument.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

Zionism by its definition always required a nation for the Jews.

You are very perceptive. What gave that up? Just to add something else you either missed or omitted on purpose, it does not exclude anybody else. If you are Christians or Muslim or anybody else you can stay and be equal. Just do not forget that state is Jewish and buses will not run on Saturdays. Drive the car if you have to go somewhere.

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

This sole piece of information clears the point that the sole intent of Zionism was to take part of what was sovereign land and colonize it, under the pretext given in my above post (reasons which do not stand close scrutiny). Now, you want to go in take away land from indegineous population and proclaim you want equality and peace. By all measure of stupidity Sir, that is pure ******** and an insult to anyone's intelligence.

Correction. Zionist intent was/is to free Jewish land from occupiers and to restore The Jewish State in its rightful place.


PS. Your foul language does not make your argument any stronger. Just the contrary, it means you lost it.

[proIsrael-nonIsraeli]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

Point: I Don't care if Hitler killed 6 Billion Jews instead of 6 million, I Don't Care if You were Oppressed 500 years ago or 2000 years ago. East Jerusalem is Occupied Arab territory, the Wall you build is Illegal, The Settlements Should be Removed from all areas taken in 1967, Palestinians Should have a State of thier own were the refugees may want to return, GAZA and WestBank should at least be joined together...

That's the point and don't bring up jewish suffering because no one cares, I Won't allow you to use it as an excuse to make palestinians suffer in the present.

I have several points.

First, the same as Republican you missed subject of the conversation and replied out of tune as well.

Second, what makes you think I care what you don't care about or what you believe to be legal/illegal?

Third, what ever I said was my direct reply to the question posed by your friend. If you do not wish to hear my "whining" do not ask questions you might not like the answers to.

[Republican]

Originally Posted by proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Not to a Jew living in Arab country.



We are not talking about European anti-Semites at this moment. We are talking about Arab/Muslim anti-Semites. Please, follow the conversation.

heh,

nice way to escape answering my valid statements, historical facts are connected, Zionism was established in the Middle East, due to the fact that Jews were persecuted by "Christians" in Europe,

The evil, terrorist Zionist movement played this card in order to establish a "Jewish Homeland" in Palestine.

Furthermore, the Europeans, ever since Charlemagne, were searching for ways to get rid of Jews, it was a burden on the shoulders of Medieval Christian Europe,
They did it in many ways, they slaughtered them, they confiscated their belongings, and they threw them out into the sea,
The only refuge those poor Jews found was in the Muslim Countries of North Africa, this is why Jews are still living there in Morrocan countries.

Your Anti-Semitism plus the interests of some evil Zionist Fanatics like Hertzl did cross at the beginning of the past century.

Again, we are not Anti-Semites, We Are Semites.

As for Jew Hatred, let me tell you, that one of our freedom fighters who was freed just last year, was a Jew, his name was Nasim Nisr.

It is funny how you people in the west, call for Humanitrianism, Justice, Democracy and every other empty blank slogan you hold, yet you only see with one eye. Hypocrisy at its best.

By the way this happened just 3 days ago,
Muslim Pregnant woman, stabbed 18 times to death in a courtroom

Your Muslim Hatred and Anti-Semitism continues!

I demand a "Muslim Homeland" in western Europe to protect the European Muslims people from your Anti-Semitism! What do you think?

[proIsrael-nonIsraeli]

Originally Posted by Republican

heh,

nice way to escape answering my valid statements, historical facts are connected, Zionism was established in the Middle East, due to the fact that Jews were persecuted by "Christians" in Europe,

The evil, terrorist Zionist movement played this card in order to establish a "Jewish Homeland" in Palestine.

Furthermore, the Europeans, ever since Charlemagne, were searching for ways to get rid of Jews, it was a burden on the shoulders of Medieval Christian Europe,
They did it in many ways, they slaughtered them, they confiscated their belongings, and they threw them out into the sea,
The only refuge those poor Jews found was in the Muslim Countries of North Africa, this is why Jews are still living there in Morrocan countries.

Your Anti-Semitism plus the interests of some evil Zionist Fanatics like Hertzl did cross at the beginning of the past century.

Again, we are not Anti-Semites, We Are Semites.

As for Jew Hatred, let me tell you, that one of our freedom fighters who was freed just last year, was a Jew, his name was Nasim Nisr.

It is funny how you people in the west, call for Humanitrianism, Justice, Democracy and every other empty blank slogan you hold, yet you only see with one eye. Hypocrisy at its best.

By the way this happened just 3 days ago,
Muslim Pregnant woman, stabbed 18 times to death in a courtroom

Your Muslim Hatred and Anti-Semitism continues!

I demand a "Muslim Homeland" in western Europe to protect the European Muslims people from your Anti-Semitism! What do you think?

I am not escaping anything. Actually, I am the only one answering questions here. Rest of you are just spinning.

And if you have problem with Christian anti-Semites feel free to open appropriate thread and discuss whatever connections you want. We are talking about Muslim anti-Semites right now.

[Frisbeetarian]

Do not get preoccupied with the term. Concentrate on an intent and an action.
Expression "Anti-Semitism" did not not exist in Arabic or Hebrew. It came from Europe and if has nothing to do with you writing from right to left. Those are just few hints for you. Feel free to fill in the remaining blanks.
If you still cannot do or do not want to do it then just accept what I said.
If you do not want to do that too then I suggest we replace "anti-Semitism"
with "Jew hatred" everywhere in my post and be done with this particular argument.

Define a semite.

You are very perceptive. What gave that up? Just to add something else you either missed or omitted on purpose, it does not exclude anybody else. If you are Christians or Muslim or anybody else you can stay and be equal. Just do not forget that state is Jewish and buses will not run on Saturdays. Drive the car if you have to go somewhere.

When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves - that is only half the truth. As regards our security and life we defend ourselves. ... But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves.

Or Arab?

Across the mainstream Zionist spectrum, it was understood from the outset that Palestine’s indigenous Arab population would acquiesce in its dispossession. Contrary to the claim that is often made, Zionism was not blind to the presence of Arabs in Palestine, Zeev Sternhell observes. If Zionist intellectuals and leaders ignored the Arab dilemma, it was chiefly because they knew that this problem had no solution within the Zionist way of thinking…In general both sides understood each other well and knew that the implementation of Zionism could be only at the expense of the Palestinian Arabs.

The Zionists from early on were in fact bent on expelling the Palestinians. “The idea of transfer had accompanied the Zionist movement from its very beginnings,” Tom Segev reports. “”Disappearing” the Arabs lay at the heart of the Zionist dream, and was also a necessary condition to its existence. ...With a few exceptions, none of the Zionists disputed the desirability of forced transfer – or its morality.” They key was to get the timing right. Ben-Gurion, reflecting on the expulsion option in the late 1930s, wrote: “What is inconceivable in normal times is possible in revolutionary times; and if at this time the opportunity is missed and what is possible in such great hours is not carried out – a whole world is lost.”

The goal of “disappearing” the indigenous Arab population points to a virtual truism buried beneath a mountain of apologetic Zionist literature: what spurred Palestinians’ opposition to Zionism was not anti-Semitism, in the sense of an irrational or abstract hatred for Jews, but rather the prospect – very real – of their own expulsion. “The fear of territorial displacement and dispossession”, Morris reasonably concludes, “was to be the chief motor of Arab antagonism to Zionism.”

Correction. Zionist intent was/is to free Jewish land from occupiers and to restore The Jewish State in its rightful place.

[quote]This sort of 'historical right' was also seized by the Romantic precursors of Nazism and, with a vengeance, by the Nazis themselves, to justify the conquest of the East. Germany was said to have legitimate claims on Slavic territory (especially but not limited to Poland) since it was 'already inhabited by the Germans in primeval times', 'fertilized by the most noble ancient German blood', 'germanic for many centuries and long before a Slav set foot there', ,teutonic-German Volksboden for 3000 years as far as the Vistula. ... In the 6th and 7th century after Christ the Slavs pushed outwards from their eastern homelands and into the ancient German land ... - admittedly only for a few hundred years', etc. The Slavic 'interlopers', by contrast, were seen as 'history's squatters' who merely 'existed' in surroundings that they 'could not master'. Only the remnant or newly settled German communities were supposedly able to 'shape' the environment and by so doing make it 'their own' in the course, ephemeral as it was, of Slavic rule. Poland under the Slavs, for example, was depicted as an artificial entity, more a melange of inchoate nationalities than a cohesive nation, that had fallen into a state of abject decay - 'untilled fields surrendered to the thorny clutches of wild nature, desolate farm buildings, soil erosion' - with the notable exception of the German enclaves that managed to endure and even thrive despite all. Substitue the proper nouns and one could be reading any standard Zionist history of Palestine.[/QUOTE]

Occupiers? Define occupier.

PS. Your foul language does not make your argument any stronger. Just the contrary, it means you lost it.

I would spend more time thinking about giving a valid answer instead of repeating the same preset dogmatic babel.

[Republican]

Originally Posted by proIsrael-nonIsraeli

I am not escaping anything. Actually, I am the only one answering questions here. Rest of you are just spinning.

And if you have problem with Christian anti-Semites feel free to open appropriate thread and discuss whatever connections you want. We are talking about Muslim anti-Semites right now.

Oh Dear!

That's the point! there is no Muslim anti-Semites to begin with!!!!

"The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern people originating in southwestern Asia, including Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites. It was proposed at first to refer to the languages related to Hebrew by Ludwig Schlözer, in Eichhorn's "Repertorium", vol. VIII (Leipzig, 1781), p. 161."

You may not know this, but Lebanese are a mixture of Canaanites, Phoenicians, Arabs and some Hebrews (Yes! there are Jews in Lebanon).

As for Anti-Semitism take a look at this,

"The term "anti-Semitic" (or "anti-Semite") usually refers to Jews only. It was coined in 1879 by German journalist Wilhelm Marr in a pamphlet called, "The Victory of Germandom over Jewry". Using ideas of race and nationalism, Marr argued that Jews had become the first major power in the West. He accused them of being liberals, a people without roots who had Judaized Germans beyond salvation. In 1879 Marr founded the "League for Anti-Semitism"."

Anti-Semitism was founded in your back-yard, you are the ones who have fed and raised racism.
You cannot accuse me of any racism, racism is not part of our teachings, nor our behavior...
On the other hand I can accuse on many things, you are the ones who made the "Holocaust" (really exaggerated in numbers) [The Zionist have even surpassed one of the "Arabs" Historian in which he claimed that Moses(A.S) Left Egypt with 700,000 Jew warriors! (mind you, the biggest empire at that time was the Persian Empire, and it barely had 500,000 warriors)],
You are the ones who committed crimes against the "Black" in America, you are the ones who see every "black American" as a gangster, and every "Hispanic" as a drug dealer, etc...

You are the ones who categorize people, not us...

You made a mistake by killing the Jews in the first half of the last century and you want to repent for your evil deeds, Fine.... But not on my Expense!
This we shall not accept,
Semite Jews, who lived in this land for hundreds and thousands of years, are our brothers and sisters, and they lived among us until your Zionist friends came.
Snatching Palestine, destroying stone and flesh, and casting away an entire nation, in order to create a "Zionist Jewish Homeland"; Zionism an entity that lives on Bloodshed and Earth corruption, is against everything that all religions stands for, Zionism is against everything that humanity stands for...

A queer and destructive entity have no place on our Land, we have a problem with this entity, and we won't live in peace with such monster,
you have chosen your side, you have sided with the devil, this decision alone, have collapsed your entire Post-Renaissance philosophy of Humanitarianism.
That is why, your societies are breaking apart, slowly, but surely))) morality is in the mud, humanity on its knees, Justice is just a mythological concept you ponder upon in your academic institutes.
You reap what you sow.

[Rizla]

Again, we are not Anti-Semites, We Are Semites

The term "anti-Semite" was coined in Germany in 1879 by Wilhelm Marrih to refer to the anti-Jewish manifestations of the period and to give Jew-hatred a more scientific sounding name.1 "Anti-Semitism" has been accepted and understood to mean hatred of the Jewish people. Dictionaries define the term as: "Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews" and "Hostility towards Jews as a religious or racial minority group, often accompanied by social, economic and political discrimination."2

The claim that Arabs as "Semites" cannot possibly be anti-Semitic is a semantic distortion that ignores the reality of Arab discrimination and hostility toward Jews. Arabs, like any other people, can indeed be anti-Semitic.

Jews and arabs lived side by side for the 1800 years of your exile

Organized massacres and pogroms:

Morocco: 1728, 1790, 1875, 1884, 1890, 1903, 1912, 1948, 1952, 1955
Algeria: 1805, 1934
Tunisia:1864, 1869, 1932, 1967
Persia: 1839, 1867, 1910
Iraq: 1828, 1936, 1937, 1941, 1946, 1948, 1967, 1969
Libya: 1785, 1860, 1897, 1945, 1948, 1967
Egypt:1882, 1919, 1921, 1924, 1938-39, 1945, 1948, 1956, 1967
Yemen: 1947
Palestine: 1929, 1936
Syria: 1840, 1945, 1948, 1949, 1967

Source: "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris

[proIsrael-nonIsraeli]

Originally Posted by Rizla

The term "anti-Semite" was coined in Germany in 1879 by Wilhelm Marrih to refer to the anti-Jewish manifestations of the period and to give Jew-hatred a more scientific sounding name.1 "Anti-Semitism" has been accepted and understood to mean hatred of the Jewish people. Dictionaries define the term as: "Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews" and "Hostility towards Jews as a religious or racial minority group, often accompanied by social, economic and political discrimination."2

The claim that Arabs as "Semites" cannot possibly be anti-Semitic is a semantic distortion that ignores the reality of Arab discrimination and hostility toward Jews. Arabs, like any other people, can indeed be anti-Semitic.


Organized massacres and pogroms:

Morocco: 1728, 1790, 1875, 1884, 1890, 1903, 1912, 1948, 1952, 1955
Algeria: 1805, 1934
Tunisia:1864, 1869, 1932, 1967
Persia: 1839, 1867, 1910
Iraq: 1828, 1936, 1937, 1941, 1946, 1948, 1967, 1969
Libya: 1785, 1860, 1897, 1945, 1948, 1967
Egypt:1882, 1919, 1921, 1924, 1938-39, 1945, 1948, 1956, 1967
Yemen: 1947
Palestine: 1929, 1936
Syria: 1840, 1945, 1948, 1949, 1967

Source: "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris

Rizla,

Welcome and thank you for your replay.

Just to clarify. It is being stipulated by my distinguished opponent that Jews and Arabs were soul mates before introduction of Zionism to the region, so if you permit I will remove later dates from your list just to make it look more to the point:

Morocco: 1728, 1790, 1875, 1884, 1890
Algeria: 1805
Tunisia:1864, 1869
Persia: 1839, 1867
Iraq: 1828
Libya: 1785, 1860, 1897
Egypt:1882
Palestine: 1834(Tsfat; added by yours truly)
Syria: 1840

Bare in mind, ladies and gentlemen, that this is only what was recorded and those are only violent events.
Day-to-day oppression and humiliation of Jews by Arabs and Muslims is not being shown here.

Bottom line, there was never good relation between the two. Let's not try to put lipstick on historical pig, shell we.