Do you support a regime change in Syria?

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by 3asheq Beirut

The way that Sharia is implemented is based on interpretation. There are Muslims who are pious and religious and yet who do not support that concept of a religious state. And as far as the past 1400 years, the Islamic state very clearly discriminated against non-Muslims as it treated them differently than it did the Muslims. This cannot be the basis of a modern, efficient state, as a large portion of the population will be subject to different treatment. The only way to have a fair, just system is through the concept of citizenship, where all citizens of the single nation are treated equally under the law, and no discrimination is made between different religions, sects, ethnicities, etc.

As for moderation, I never used that word. I didn't argue that the state should be "moderate" or "radical" because I know these terms are subjective. However, what I do know is that the state needs to represent the interest of the nation and offer a system whereby all citizens are viewed as equal members of a single nation and where their productive potentialities are maximized. This is impossible under a religious state because such a state is by definition discriminatory.

Yes I know sharia is implemented based on different point of views or interpretations, this isn't our argument. We are arguing whether or not Muslims who form an overwhelming majority in a certain country have the right to form a religious state. And This notion of an Islamic state is not new, it was presented by the Prophet(PBUH) and the Rashidon Caliphates after him. So, religiously speaking, there is no doubt that Islam requires a complete implementation of the sharia in Muslim areas while taking into consideration the rights of other religious minorities. Forming an Islamic regime in Syria doesnt necessarily mean other minorities will be treated as dhimmis because I don't think such treatment or classification is applicable anymore.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Souss

It's good that you are honest about it. I prefer intolerant extremists that are open about their views as opposed to those who posture as moderate and open-minded.

You consider this extremism, I consider it a lawful right. And if I am to be considered an intolerant extremist, then so shall most of the western regimes and their ignorant people who treat Muslims/Arabs as second class citizens and consider them terrorists which is much worse than what I'm calling for, incomparable actually.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Anny

Lets face it, if the syrian regim changes, it will become another Irak, a huge war, the killing of thousands of minorities such at the Baath people and a total immigration of the chrisitans or their death. Who wants that? No one specially not the sunnies that are against the regime today coz that will garantie a huge war and bombs here and there like Irak.

Who wants a change, Israel and the USA coz they will gain alot from such a turn over.

Israel and the US are the last ones who seek a change in Syria. The last thing they need is for Sunnite Islamists to take over and engage war with Israel.

[Anny]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Israel and the US are the last ones who seek a change in Syria. The last thing they need is for Sunnite Islamists to take over and engage war with Israel.

ahhaha you really think that, I think they will become like Egypt and make a war against Iran instead since they will be promissed by Israel and the US to take over Lebanon and make a Sunnie state by establishing the Palestinians. They will be surrounded by the same religion all over the middle east (from Lebanon to Irak and its easier to make a simple war in Iran from there.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Yes I know sharia is implemented based on different point of views or interpretations, this isn't our argument. We are arguing whether or not Muslims who form an overwhelming majority in a certain country have the right to form a religious state. And This notion of an Islamic state is not new, it was presented by the Prophet(PBUH) and the Rashidon Caliphates after him. So, religiously speaking, there is no doubt that Islam requires a complete implementation of the sharia in Muslim areas while taking into consideration the rights of other religious minorities. Forming an Islamic regime in Syria doesnt necessarily mean other minorities will be treated as dhimmis because I don't think such treatment or classification is applicable anymore.

By this logic, shall all European countries become Islamic Republics in 20 years?

Originally Posted by Saladin

You consider this extremism, I consider it a lawful right. And if I am to be considered an intolerant extremist, then so shall most of the western regimes and their ignorant people who treat Muslims/Arabs as second class citizens and consider them terrorists which is much worse than what I'm calling for, incomparable actually.

Of course it is ignorant to consider all muslims as terrorists, however when a minority is becoming ever radicalized and threatens national security, the people will start judging them more harshly and even discriminating against them. This is a fact happening on the ground, which is unfortunate as it is like a vicious circle, the minority will continue to radicalize.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Anny

ahhaha you really think that, I think they will become like Egypt and make a war against Iran instead since they will be promissed by Israel and the US to take over Lebanon and make a Sunnie state by establishing the Palestinians. They will be surrounded by the same religion all over the middle east (from Lebanon to Irak and its easier to make a simple war in Iran from there.

No if Muslims follow Sharia properly, the first thing they will do is opening the door for jihad for all muslims around the world. So if an Islamic state ever rises in Syria, Egypt or Jordan their fronts with Israel will be opened.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Salome

By this logic, shall all European countries become Islamic Republics in 20 years?




Of course it is ignorant to consider all muslims as terrorists, however when a minority is becoming ever radicalized and threatens national security, the people will start judging them more harshly and even discriminating against them. This is a fact happening on the ground, which is unfortunate as it is like a vicious circle, the minority will continue to radicalize.

No Muslims in Europe must fully abide by the state laws there. And I'm not talking about europe what concerns me is the middle east and the Arabic/Islamic world.

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by Saladin

You consider this extremism, I consider it a lawful right. And if I am to be considered an intolerant extremist, then so shall most of the western regimes and their ignorant people who treat Muslims/Arabs as second class citizens and consider them terrorists which is much worse than what I'm calling for, incomparable actually.

Arab/Muslim citizens of western nations are not treated as second-class citizens. There is no such concept in those states. All citizens are equal in rights and duties and treated the same under the law. There is no doubt that certain forms of discrimination exist within the populations of those countries, but to say that the state treats certain citizens as second-class is wholly inaccurate.

As for your previous statement, we are not discussing the so-called "right" of a majority-muslim population to install a religious state, but rather whether such a state is in the best interest of the nation, and it is not. Western nations with overwhelming "Christian" majorities also have a right to install a Christian state, but they choose not to because they have seen the inherent backwardness and destructiveness of such a state.

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Israel and the US are the last ones who seek a change in Syria. The last thing they need is for Sunnite Islamists to take over and engage war with Israel.

Who do you think gave funding, support, and technical assistance to the Muslim Brotherhood during their terror campaign in the late 70's and early 80's in Syria?

[Anny]

Originally Posted by Saladin

No if Muslims follow Sharia properly, the first thing they will do is opening the door for jihad for all muslims around the world. So if an Islamic state ever rises in Syria, Egypt or Jordan their fronts with Israel will be opened.

Do you seriously think that will happen, people are only followers of their leader. Thats what they did in Egypt, in Saudi arabia and most of the arab countries who now have a peace deal with Israel in the back of Palestinians and against muslims like them.

Plus let me add something to this logic, when Sunnies will be promissed a land for themselves like all Syria and All Lebanon, they will jump at the opportunity for it on the back of the Shiaas and the christians, dont worry !