Can a Palestinian Nonviolent Resistance Help?

[amalhope]

Originally Posted by Zayn

Did it ever occur to you that men and women have different styles of protest? Men are more likely to take part in the aggressive, stone-throwing protests you see on TV most often. I posted several pictures of Palestinian women standing up to occupation, yet you are still trying to tell me that women have no part in the resistance.

Calm down, Zayn, this is a discussion. It's not about scoring points. Drop the holier-than-thou attitude and discuss points stated without making judgements on other people!! We're on the same side!

I didn't say women have no part in the resistance!! I said: "Why has it mostly been Palestinian men?" and "Palestinian women are sometimes present, but they are absent on the most part" and "from what I see of Palestinian protests and sit-ins on TV, the ratio of Palestinian women is very small".

It's like you're insisting to create conflict to score points! What's your problem. Re-read what I wrote!

Originally Posted by Zayn

I find it terribly ironic that you are calling the Palestinians, who have resisted Israeli occupation with blood, sweat, tears, and more blood for over 60 years "passive" people.

Are you okay?!?! I didn't say that Palestinians are passive people!! I said: "The Palestinian people, just like other people of that region, have been very passive about leaderships"!!

Originally Posted by Zayn

Did I not just tell you that Fatah really controls very little in the West Bank and that Abbas is on his way out the door?

What you just told me is not holy! What you just told me does not change the fact that Abbas is still in office!!!!! If he has no control over anything, why the heck does he still have a title and a job? Revolt and get him out of office!

Originally Posted by Zayn

The last thing Palestinians need is to shed more Palestinian blood while they have an increasingly tightening occupation around their necks.

If he has zero control there wouldn't be bloodshed in the process of dethroning him! There has already been blood in Hamas-Fatah confrontations, and blood could not get him out of office.

Originally Posted by Zayn

Try to understand this, because your understanding of this conflict has a lot of holes in it that need to be filled.

Again, discuss the points, and stay away from assessing other people's understanding. Who are you to deem who understands and who doesn't!! We're on the same side yet you want to antagonize me!! Get a grip and chuck the attitude!

[Zayn]

Originally Posted by amalhope

Calm down, Zayn, this is a discussion. It's not about scoring points. Drop the holier-than-thou attitude and discuss points stated without making judgements on other people!! We're on the same side!

Again, this is all very ironic because I have repeated the same things over and over to you, yet you still do not understand.

I didn't say women have no part in the resistance!! I said: "Why has it mostly been Palestinian men?" and "Palestinian women are sometimes present, but they are absent on the most part" and "from what I see of Palestinian protests and sit-ins on TV, the ratio of Palestinian women is very small".

Funny, because from what I see on TV, the ratio of men to women is about equal. Like I said before, the discrepancy between men and women that you may see in some protests is due to the fact that these demonstrations often turn violent and women do not fare as well as men in combative situations. It seems as if you're trying to imply that the Palestinian movement has a sexist element to it.

It's like you're insisting to create conflict to score points! What's your problem. Re-read what I wrote!

I have read what you wrote, replied to the same things that you have written several times, yet you refuse to budge one bit without even offering one bit of justification, evidence, or reasoning for continuing your stance. I would say that it is you, rather than me, who is looking to score points. I do not need to score points.

Are you okay?!?! I didn't say that Palestinians are passive people!! I said: "The Palestinian people, just like other people of that region, have been very passive about leaderships"!!

You called the Palestinians "followers." What an insult.

I just told you that they gave Fatah the boot in 2006 in the most important part of the Palestinian Authority--the legislative branch. What do you not understand about this? All because Mahmoud Abbas has been the illegitimate president for a few months does not mean the Palestinians are being passive. On the contrary, Abbas is far more likely to fall than a dictator like Hosni Mubarak or Bashshar al-Assad.

What you just told me is not holy! What you just told me does not change the fact that Abbas is still in office!!!!! If he has no control over anything, why the heck does he still have a title and a job? Revolt and get him out of office!

The quicker you understand that you have no idea what you're talking about, the better off you will be. I suggest you do some reading about Palestinian affairs and history then come back and talk to me. Better yet, how about you simply switch sides and become a Zionist. I think our movement would be better off that way.

He still has a title because he is backed by Israeli occupation troops, and the Dahlan-Dayton gangs in the West Bank. He is teetering and will fall very soon. The Palestinians already had a "revolt" in Gaza in 2007 which cost us many lives. We do not want to see a repeat of that, we would rather have a peaceful solution, which will come in due time. Wait until the next election.

If he has zero control there wouldn't be bloodshed in the process of dethroning him! There has already been blood in Hamas-Fatah confrontations, and blood could not get him out of office.

This "blood" you speak of occurred in Gaza, not in the West Bank. Fatah quickly lost Gaza. All because he has no control over the Palestinians does not mean he doesn't have armed gangs protecting him. Again, I suggest you adapt a more realistic view of this conflict.

Again, discuss the points, and stay away from assessing other people's understanding. Who are you to deem who understands and who doesn't!! We're on the same side yet you want to antagonize me!! Get a grip and chuck the attitude!

You don't really understand anything. I don't know how I can keep telling you the same things over and over again and you still don't understand. You seem to think that Palestine is going to be liberated by "sit-ins" when they have been practicing non-violent resistance for decades.

Become a Zionist. Have a nice night.

[Dalzi]

Originally Posted by amalhope

I didn't say women have no part in the resistance!! I said: "Why has it mostly been Palestinian men?" and "Palestinian women are sometimes present, but they are absent on the most part" and "from what I see of Palestinian protests and sit-ins on TV, the ratio of Palestinian women is very small".

It's like you're insisting to create conflict to score points! What's your problem. Re-read what I wrote!

Sounds like talk from La La Land. There are no women on earth who are in the frontage like the Palestinian women are, they're warriors who are doing much more than any women could ever do. Those men you see 'on TV' have mothers who make them what they are.

What do you call her? A sit home good for nothing woman?



"Why has it mostly been men?" What kind of a question is that? It's supposed to be all men, unless you want women to start taking testosterone from puberty. I find it strange how the Palestinians have so many women doing what's supposed to be a man's job.

[amalhope]

Originally Posted by Zayn

the discrepancy between men and women that you may see in some protests is due to the fact that these demonstrations often turn violent and women do not fare as well as men in combative situations. It seems as if you're trying to imply that the Palestinian movement has a sexist element to it.

I support the Palestinian cause. I am not trying to imply anything. Sexism as a topic can be discussed in a different thread as an issue affecting the whole region.

By saying "the discrepancy between men and women that you may see in some protests is due to the fact that.." you've acknowledged that in some protests the ratio is not equal.

Originally Posted by Zayn

I have read what you wrote, replied to the same things that..

Abbas is still in office. This is a fact. What he presides over or who supports him or doesn't support him is not the issue. Fact: He is still in office.

Originally Posted by Zayn

You called the Palestinians "followers." What an insult.

That's a lie. Why didn't you quote me? I said:"The mentality of being followers is still very pervasive and more so than ever, unfortunately." and I was talking about that whole region. I said it's "pervasive", but not everyone is so.

I support the Palestinian cause. Doing so does not mean anyone or any party is immune from criticism. That's how things develop and that's how mentalities grow.. by criticism.

Originally Posted by Zayn

The quicker you understand that you have no idea what you're talking about, the better off you will be.

I do not purport to understand everything. I posed some points for discussion. I asked questions, I said "perhaps", "why not" etc. I could be wrong in some points. I think I have an idea about things I talk about though. If you disagree, that's your opinion.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Just because you say you're so knowledgeable, it doesn't make you so in reality. That's also just your opinion of yourself.

Originally Posted by Zayn

Better yet, how about you simply switch sides and become a Zionist. I think our movement would be better off that way.

You want me to become a Zionist?!?! What kind of gibberish is that?! You're calling on people to switch sides and support Zionism, yet you claim to support the Palestinian cause?! What hypocrisy!

I am a supporter of the Palestinian cause. It's not "your" movement. What you said is so childish. Who are you to tell people to be or not be part of the movement?! Get a grip and knock on reality's door!

Originally Posted by Zayn

This "blood" you speak of occurred in Gaza, not in the West Bank... Again, I suggest you adapt a more realistic view of this conflict..

There was blood in both Gaza and the West Bank. Not too long ago in June a few Hamas members and a Palestinian policeman were killed in a gun battle in the northern West Bank. You claim to know everything yet you don't know about that?

Originally Posted by Zayn

You seem to think that Palestine is going to be liberated by "sit-ins" when they have been practicing non-violent resistance for decades.

You're delusional. That's another lie. I never said that!! Why don't you quote me?

In my responses to the topic of this thread about the feasibilty of a non-violent resistance, I always wondered if massive sit-ins would work in some cases. I never said they should displace violent resistance nor did I say that Palestine could be liberated by sit-ins!

amalhope in #21: "As I said earlier, sometimes violence cannot be avoided. Israel practiced systematic violence against Palestinians. Palestinians had no other choice:
YouTube - Israeli Brutality - The Occupation, Human Rights Violations and War Crimes"

You cannot even read and understand my stance on this matter, which I clearly posted in earlier messages in the SAME thread, yet you accuse me of ignorance!! What nonsense is this!

Originally Posted by Zayn

Become a Zionist.

I don't want to become a Zionist. It's a shame that you are asking people to become Zionists! Really.. SHAME on you.

[amalhope]

Originally Posted by Dalzi

Sounds like talk from La La Land. There are no women on earth who are in the frontage like the Palestinian women are, they're warriors who are doing much more than any women could ever do. Those men you see 'on TV' have mothers who make them what they are.

What do you call her? A sit home good for nothing woman?



"Why has it mostly been men?" What kind of a question is that? It's supposed to be all men, unless you want women to start taking testosterone from puberty. I find it strange how the Palestinians have so many women doing what's supposed to be a man's job.

The discussion was about peaceful sit-ins.

You seem to disagree, but I still see peaceful demonstrations as being dominated by men. I think women should be more involved in non-violent demonstrations and sit-ins.

Another member brought pictures to try to prove otherwise, but I could bring tons of pictures showing these cases when women have been involved but that does not prove that the ratio is representative of their number in society.

There are even pictures of women stone-throwers and women fighting on the frontlines. Posting such pictures of such cases does not prove that women have fought on the frontlines in equal proportions to men. I don't expect women to be on the frontlines fighting. This point was brought up to show that although some women have taken this role, it is a small percentage. Posting pictures of this small percentage does not prove that it was highly present. That's all.

There was also no comparison between Palestinian women and women from other countries in previous posts. I don't understand why you brought it up.

There was also no undermining of sacrifices of Palestinian mothers.