Bush must be stopped

[Moderate American]

Originally Posted by 3asheq Beirut

That's not true, and you obviously know nothing about the Oil for Food program. It's not like Iraq was free to use the money from that program to buy food and medicine as it needed. It had to enter into contracts with certain companies imposed on it. Then those contracts would be delayed by the US and Britain for over 6 months, causing a humanitarian disaster in the country. This is in addition to the fact that the Oil for Food program was nothing more than a drop in the bucket of the humanitarian needs of Iraq. How do you think Americans would fare if the world put a complete embargo on the US and shut down the entire economy, while "allowing" Americans to buy food and medicine under certain conditions.

As for buying weapons, what weapons are you talking about? The ones that didn't exist? The problem with you is that you couldn't care less about the Iraqis, but you don't like to admit that your country actually committed a crime. It's funny that you blame the Germans for their complicity in the crimes committed by their government during world war II, but you have gone to far greater lengths making excuses for yours.

Saddam was rearming his military. From the Iraqi Survey Group is a partial list of countries that sold military technology to Saddam:

Belarus: missile technology, satellite systems, radar and air defense technology, tank equipment, laser technology, rocket-propelled grenades, antitank ammunition, tank and Mig-29 spare parts.

Bulgaria: Kornet missiles, thermal imagers, combat vehicle launch units, spare tank parts, and shoulder-fired missiles.

China: Missile gyros, inertial guidance systems, automatic weapons

France: spare parts for Mirage fighter aircraft, Roland air-to-ground missile parts, electronic warfare technology.

India: missile program technology for solid propellant fuel.

Jordan: missile parts, global positioning systems, video gun sights, electronic countermeasures equipment, armored vehicles, thirty-mm cannon technology.

North Korea: infrared missile-jamming systems, missile gyros and navigation technology, ballistic missile technology, thermal-imaging equipment, ammunition, rocket systems.

Poland: missile system engines.

Russia: shoulder-fired missiles, advanced missiles, tanks, night-vision equipment, global-positioning-system jammers, missile-guidance systems and engines, Kornet anti-tank missiles.

South Korea: military computer systems, sophisticated communications and radar systems.

Syria: missiles, rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns, ammunition.

Ukraine: antiaircraft radar systems.

Yugoslovia: Mig-21 jet engines.

Also, by 2003, 7 years into UN sanctions, Saddam had managed to construct at least seventy-eight separate presidential palace compounds. Hmm, I wonder how much food could have gone to his people >_>

You do realize, that you yourself are an American. I do care for the Iraqi people and all the suffering they are enduring. Please don't result to personal attacks on me by simply labeling me. And don't bring up the German ****, you're American too so you're supporting our government with your taxes!!

[3asheq Beirut]

Originally Posted by Moderate American

Saddam was rearming his military. From the Iraqi Survey Group is a partial list of countries that sold military technology to Saddam:

Belarus: missile technology, satellite systems, radar and air defense technology, tank equipment, laser technology, rocket-propelled grenades, antitank ammunition, tank and Mig-29 spare parts.

Bulgaria: Kornet missiles, thermal imagers, combat vehicle launch units, spare tank parts, and shoulder-fired missiles.

China: Missile gyros, inertial guidance systems, automatic weapons

France: spare parts for Mirage fighter aircraft, Roland air-to-ground missile parts, electronic warfare technology.

India: missile program technology for solid propellant fuel.

Jordan: missile parts, global positioning systems, video gun sights, electronic countermeasures equipment, armored vehicles, thirty-mm cannon technology.

North Korea: infrared missile-jamming systems, missile gyros and navigation technology, ballistic missile technology, thermal-imaging equipment, ammunition, rocket systems.

Poland: missile system engines.

Russia: shoulder-fired missiles, advanced missiles, tanks, night-vision equipment, global-positioning-system jammers, missile-guidance systems and engines, Kornet anti-tank missiles.

South Korea: military computer systems, sophisticated communications and radar systems.

Syria: missiles, rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns, ammunition.

Ukraine: antiaircraft radar systems.

Yugoslovia: Mig-21 jet engines.

Also, by 2003, 7 years into UN sanctions, Saddam had managed to construct at least seventy-eight separate presidential palace compounds. Hmm, I wonder how much food could have gone to his people >_>

You do realize, that you yourself are an American. I do care for the Iraqi people and all the suffering they are enduring. Please don't result to personal attacks on me by simply labeling me. And don't bring up the German ****, you're American too so you're supporting our government with your taxes!!

First, I would rather you chose an organization a little more objective than the Iraq Survey Group. However, it's irrelevant. The money Saddam spent on weapons or palaces would not have been otherwise spent on food. It's not like Saddam had a choice of either buying food or weapons and he chose weapons. You make it sound that simple. There was only a certain amount of food or medicine Iraq could purchase under strict conditions. All contracts had to be overseen and approved by the United States. And both the US and the UK tended to delay contracts for extended periods of time. Besides, regardless of what Saddam did, this doesn't excuse the governments of the US and the UK from their crimes.

Regarding my American citizenship, I don't see how that in anyway diminishes my argument. The payment of taxes is something imposed on all citizens, and thus we don't have much choice in that matter. I am not criticizing you for paying your taxes. Rather, I am criticizing you for making excuses for your government's actions, regardless of how criminal and genocidal they are. I do not make those excuses. And ultimately, this was the criticism of the German people. That they stood by and approved of the actions of their government.

[Suney]

Originally Posted by Moderate American

If Saddam actually used the Oil for Food Program like he was suppose to, instead of raking in the billions from the corruption and using the money to buy weapons and not food to help his civilians then those children would not have starved

I dont care about Saddam. If you want to go attack Saddam in a debate then I have no problem.

But the truth is, those sanctions caused children to starve. Both Saddam and the U.S are to blame

He was put in Iraq by the U.S, they are responsible for him anyway.

[Chahinsc]

Originally Posted by LFFL

Exactly, George Bush (in regards to Lebanon) was extremely important to Lebanese sovereignty. Really March 14, 2005 was symbolic, but it was the foreign pressure that resulted in the withdrawal of the Syrians and the resignation of the government. Look at the current attempt to force the government to withdraw.

History didn't start on March 14th 2005. The Syrian occupation was greenlighted by the Americans at the end of the civil war in return for Syrian support (or at least indifference) to the first invasion of Iraq way back then. :)

[jiugiusti]

Originally Posted by Chahinsc

History didn't start on March 14th 2005. The Syrian occupation was greenlighted by the Americans at the end of the civil war in return for Syrian support (or at least indifference) to the first invasion of Iraq way back then. :)

Again, it was the lebanese errrors.
Lebanese couldn't make stability in lebanon; on the contrary they kept interkiling each others, each for his own reason, ideology, programme.. so, the US stepped in and imposed stability.

What would've been christian (FPMers, LFers, etc.) reaction, if the US gave them power for 15 years....?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! instead of giving them to the petro.dollar regional powers.

[Chahinsc]

The US had 15 years to "impose stability" a.k.a. "Syrian dominion over the Lebanese state and her territories". I believe it was during the 1982 invasion that the Syrians were barred from using their planes in Lebanon. Israel threatened to destroy their entire air force if they flew one plane over Lebanese lands after that.

Then H.W. Bush had a war to fight in Iraq. He couldn't be hampered by the Syrians, this had to be a quick and swift strike. America tossed us to Syria, and then Syria flew its planes and struck the Lebanese presidential palace which led to Aoun's exodus and Syrian dominion over Lebanon.

Syria does not recognise Lebanese independence. To them, we are like a rogue province (Taiwan to China but a different relationship). After all, we were carved out by the French (though I thank God for that).

America did not do it for stability, they did it for their interests in Iraq, then in 2005, they helped undo what they had done because (again) it served their interests in the region.

I mean look at the summer war, they didn't call for an end to it until Israel had been hurt bad and the PR damage became irreparable. They could have ended it in the beginning but chose not to restrain the Israelis.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by WiseCookie

I think you should fix ur information... if it wasn't for certain Lebanese cooperating with the syrians for personal interests neither bush or the syrians would have entered or occupied Lebanon.

Thank you