Armenians Around the World against the Turkish-Armenian Protocols - The Orange Room

Armenian

Dear Friends,

I know that this is a Lebanese forum, but I couldn't stop myself from creating this thread.

Armenians have been struggling for justice for about 100 years. We gave blood for honor and we have fought for our lands, and we will still do so, as long as we get our lands back, and till the Armenian Genocide is recognized.

In the Diaspora, where 6 million Armenians live, we have been fighting and struggling in every country, for the recognition of the Genocide and till now we succeeded in convincing about 22 countries.

USA and Turkey were putting pressure on Armenian since 1991 ( 2nd independence), but ALL governments said a BIG NO to this pressure.

Unfortunately, our new president and his government, decided to fall in the Turkish-American and Russian trap, and they decided to sign the so called protocols.

But what is this protocol??

The protocol is an agreement, to open the borders between Armenia and Turkey. But for what cost??

1) Both sides agree in the protocols to form a historical committee to discuss the Armenian Genocide. So basically the Armenians agreed in the end, to put in doubt the Genocide, and this committee might discuss it for 50 or even 100 years, and no one can stand up ( like we do now) and fight for recognition.

2) Both sides agree on the current border.

So basically the Armenians agree that Ararad, Sasoun ( my homeland), Van etc etc are Turkish.

100 years of struggle for our lands ... for nothing...

3) Put Kharapagh existence in danger...

Dear Friends,

I want you to stand up with your Armenians brothers and sisters in this critical and very difficult moments...

The protocols will be signed on Oct 10th... And if it happens, that day will be marked as black in our calendars...

If you want more information about the protocols you can visit:

Stop The Protocols Campaign | Normalization Without Preconditions

If you wish to read the protocols with explanations:

http://www.anca.org/assets/pdf/misc/..._explained.pdf

On a side note, our dear president will visit Lebanon very soon, in an attempt to explain to the Diaspora his point of view...

Protests in Canada, USA, Europe, Lebanon etc etc are being held nowadays.

If you wish to sign a petition, please visit:

Protest the signing of the Armenian-Turkish protocol of August 31st, 2009 Petition

ÕˆÕ‰ - Petition - Petition

Thank you!!

Lebanesegirl

I have a question for u Armenian what are the Armenians in Armenia doing? do they agree with the president?

I'm also against The protocols, I'm sure the Armenians are with peace but not this way mech 3a 7seboun!! Turkey should recognize the genocide once and for all!!

ius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armenian

Dear Friends,

I know that this is a Lebanese forum, but I couldn't stop myself from creating this thread.

Armenians have been struggling for justice for about 100 years. We gave blood for honor and we have fought for our lands, and we will still do so, as long as we get our lands back, and till the Armenian Genocide is recognized.

In the Diaspora, where 6 million Armenians live, we have been fighting and struggling in every country, for the recognition of the Genocide and till now we succeeded in convincing about 22 countries.

USA and Turkey were putting pressure on Armenian since 1991 ( 2nd independence), but ALL governments said a BIG NO to this pressure.

Unfortunately, our new president and his government, decided to fall in the Turkish-American and Russian trap, and they decided to sign the so called protocols.

But what is this protocol??

The protocol is an agreement, to open the borders between Armenia and Turkey. But for what cost??

1) Both sides agree in the protocols to form a historical committee to discuss the Armenian Genocide. So basically the Armenians agreed in the end, to put in doubt the Genocide, and this committee might discuss it for 50 or even 100 years, and no one can stand up ( like we do now) and fight for recognition.

2) Both sides agree on the current border.

So basically the Armenians agree that Ararad, Sasoun ( my homeland), Van etc etc are Turkish.

100 years of struggle for our lands ... for nothing...

3) Put Kharapagh existence in danger...

Dear Friends,

I want you to stand up with your Armenians brothers and sisters in this critical and very difficult moments...

The protocols will be signed on Oct 10th... And if it happens, that day will be marked as black in our calendars...

If you want more information about the protocols you can visit:

Stop The Protocols Campaign | Normalization Without Preconditions

If you wish to read the protocols with explanations:

http://www.anca.org/assets/pdf/misc/..._explained.pdf

On a side note, our dear president will visit Lebanon very soon, in an attempt to explain to the Diaspora his point of view...

Protests in Canada, USA, Europe, Lebanon etc etc are being held nowadays.

If you wish to sign a petition, please visit:

Protest the signing of the Armenian-Turkish protocol of August 31st, 2009 Petition

ÕˆÕ‰ - Petition - Petition

Thank you!!

It is indeed high time that Turkey recognize the Armenian genocide.
However, opening the border between Armenia and Turkey will immensely help the economy of Armenia and the Armenian diaspora should not interfere in this. You cannot be living in the US or Canada or Lebanon and decide what compromises the people of Armenia make for their economic development.

Armenian

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

It is indeed high time that Turkey recognize the Armenian genocide.
However, opening the border between Armenia and Turkey will immensely help the economy of Armenia and the Armenian diaspora should not interfere in this. You cannot be living in the US or Canada or Lebanon and decide what compromises the people of Armenia make for their economic development.

1) The protocols is giving away OUR lands to the Turks...

The lands in Turkey now are the lands of the Diaspora Armenians

2) They are putting the Genocide Recognition in Danger and our ancestors honor in danger. But who saw the Genocide?

Simple, the ancestors of the Diaspora Armenians

3) Nagorno Gharapagh War, hundreds of Young Armenians went from Lebanon and Middle east to fight and they became generals in the Armenian Army

4) More than 70% of the income in Armenia is from the Diaspora Money

We send millions and millions of dollars to Armenia each year...

After saying all this, we have full right to interfer in every Armenia decision and if we want to follow your logic, then Armenians in Armenia don't have the right to negotiate with OUR lands...

But we don't use that logic...

And the economy going up after the borders are open, the ARF prepared a very technical and scientific report ( will try to find it and post it here) that explains in details how Armenia will benefit from the opening of the borders but in the same time how Turkey will benefit from it.

If you see the report you'll understand that we have more to lose than to win...

Thank you!!

Jean

I thought that the ARF is the strongest in Armenia

ius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armenian

1) The protocols is giving away OUR lands to the Turks...

The lands in Turkey now are the lands of the Diaspora Armenians

2) They are putting the Genocide Recognition in Danger and our ancestors honor in danger. But who saw the Genocide?

Simple, the ancestors of the Diaspora Armenians

3) Nagorno Gharapagh War, hundreds of Young Armenians went from Lebanon and Middle east to fight and they became generals in the Armenian Army

4) More than 70% of the income in Armenia is from the Diaspora Money

We send millions and millions of dollars to Armenia each year...

After saying all this, we have full right to interfer in every Armenia decision and if we want to follow your logic, then Armenians in Armenia don't have the right to negotiate with OUR lands...

But we don't use that logic...

And the economy going up after the borders are open, the ARF prepared a very technical and scientific report ( will try to find it and post it here) that explains in details how Armenia will benefit from the opening of the borders but in the same time how Turkey will benefit from it.

If you see the report you'll understand that we have more to lose than to win...

Thank you!!

1) What you call your land has been Turkish land for 100 years. It is not really your land any more. It belongs to the people living there for 4 generations.

2) The genocide was inflicted on Armenians in general. Not on the diaspora Armenians. Some Armenians are living in the diaspora because of the genocide, many others for economic reasons.

3) All those that went and fought and now live in Armenia have every right to be part of the decision. Those living abroad, don't.

4) So what? It is still only the people living there that get to decide the borders. Does the fact that most of Lebanon's income come from the Gulf allow the Gulf to decide politics in Lebanon?

The decision made by Armenia is an economic one. You do not care about the economic implications because you do not live there. The Armenians have every right to decide they want to bury the hatchet and prefer trade and commerce with Turkey over decades more of bickering. Of course, trade will help Turkey also. So what?

That does not mean you should not continue with your struggle to get Turkey to recognize the genocide. But you should respect the right of the Armenians to normalize their relations with Turkey and attempt to economically stabilize Armenia.

Thank you also.

Hye4Lebanon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

1) What you call your land has been Turkish land for 100 years. It is not really your land any more. It belongs to the people living there for 4 generations.
.

very "ballzy" of you saying this,

Dont want to hijack the thread, but think about Israelis occupying Arab land which they lived on for more than 4 generations....Though, the "jUICE" calls it Jewish land, as such, they have the right to expel the arabs.

but hey, as long as its Israel, no one can dare say anything. But for Armenians...too bad heh?

LebSpy

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

1) What you call your land has been Turkish land for 100 years. It is not really your land any more. It belongs to the people living there for 4 generations.

This way you're giving right to any nation to occupy any land by force and claim it to be theirs after years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

2) The genocide was inflicted on Armenians in general. Not on the diaspora Armenians. Some Armenians are living in the diaspora because of the genocide, many others for economic reasons.

3) All those that went and fought and now live in Armenia have every right to be part of the decision. Those living abroad, don't.

4) So what? It is still only the people living there that get to decide the borders. Does the fact that most of Lebanon's income come from the Gulf allow the Gulf to decide politics in Lebanon?

We believe in United Armenia. Therefore, the comparison of gulf funds to Lebanon with Diaspora Armenian funds to Armenia is irrelative.

That is why I also give the right to myself to decide on how my lands will be used in any negotiation with Turkey.

Armenia created diaspora ministry in the last government (even though the minister is not very good, in my opinion). Why is that if we will be totally ignored when it comes to matters which are related to us?

Thinking the way you are doing, what if the diaspora Armenians stop the funds? Isn't that more dangerous to the Armenians living in Armenia?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

The decision made by Armenia is an economic one. You do not care about the economic implications because you do not live there. The Armenians have every right to decide they want to bury the hatchet and prefer trade and commerce with Turkey over decades more of bickering. Of course, trade will help Turkey also. So what?

I assume you are from the people who prefer money over dignity.
I personally prefer having dignity (not losing my lands and my ancestor's blood not going in vain) over money (chance of having better economy).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

That does not mean you should not continue with your struggle to get Turkey to recognize the genocide. But you should respect the right of the Armenians to normalize their relations with Turkey and attempt to economically stabilize Armenia.

After the protocol, the struggle will be useless since no country will risk their own interest for something that will not change anything (thanks to the protocol).

Sorry "Armenian", I had to reply

ius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hye4Lebanon

very "ballzy" of you saying this,

Dont want to hijack the thread, but think about Israelis occupying Arab land which they lived on for more than 4 generations....Though, the "jUICE" calls it Jewish land, as such, they have the right to expel the arabs.

but hey, as long as its Israel, no one can dare say anything. But for Armenians...too bad heh?

You are getting the argumentation wrong. I am advocating the same in both cases. All the land the Jews inhabited before 48 was bought. And the land captured in 48 is ours by the fact we are living on it for generations.

Hye4Lebanon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ius

You are getting the argumentation wrong. I am advocating the same in both cases. All the land the Jews inhabited before 48 was bought. And the land captured in 48 is ours by the fact we are living on it for generations.

ROFL....OK IUS

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