نسعى لحكم إسلامي بمصر

[Frisbeetarian]

Says us...

How is a law applicable to all eternity? Midst wildly changing social foundations and understanding of the world.

[fidelio]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

How is a law applicable to all eternity? Midst wildly changing social foundations and understanding of the world.

The Magna Carta was written in the 13th century and yet, we still live under its shadow to this day.

[Frisbeetarian]

The Magna Carta was written in the 13th century and yet, we still live under its shadow to this day.

The western world lives under the tenure of different moral codes and codes of law that have persisted throughout history. They accumulated, and our perception altered after each iteration. From Hammurabi's code of law, to the Magna Carta to the French revolution. Each iteration amalgamated to conform with the difference of the age it had been molded into. Taking as reference the older laws. Shariaa on the other hand, is absolute, prone not to change, even the most rudimentary of change. Taking not into consideration the social advances of the late, shunning them even. Strictly engraved by social, civic and penal laws that existed 1500 years ago while accepting no alteration to these laws no matter how the world around it changed. The reason is because its creators deemed it divine and god ordained and thus it shouldnt be prone to change and eternally applicable. But, imaginary aside, there is no human law that is universally or infinitely applicable, it must conform to changes of habit, mold itself, respect changing perception and take on slightly different form or die out.

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

The western world lives under the tenure of different moral codes and codes of law that have persisted throughout history. They accumulated, and our perception altered after each iteration. From Hammurabi's code of law, to the Magna Carta to the French revolution. Each iteration amalgamated to conform with the difference of the age it had been molded into. Taking as reference the older laws. Shariaa on the other hand, is absolute, prone not to change, even the most rudimentary of change. Taking not into consideration the social advances of the late, shunning them even. Strictly engraved by social, civic and penal laws that existed 1500 years ago while accepting no alteration to these laws no matter how the world around it changed. The reason is because its creators deemed it divine and god ordained and thus it shouldnt be prone to change and eternally applicable. But, imaginary aside, there is no human law that is universally or infinitely applicable, it must conform to changes of habit, mold itself, respect changing perception and take on slightly different form or die out.

Well the thing is we believe the sharia laws have been laid down by God himself. So they are not prone to any form of change.

[fidelio]

Originally Posted by Frisbeetarian

The western world lives under the tenure of different moral codes and codes of law that have persisted throughout history. They accumulated, and our perception altered after each iteration. From Hammurabi's code of law, to the Magna Carta to the French revolution. Each iteration amalgamated to conform with the difference of the age it had been molded into. Taking as reference the older laws. Shariaa on the other hand, is absolute, prone not to change, even the most rudimentary of change. Taking not into consideration the social advances of the late, shunning them even. Strictly engraved by social, civic and penal laws that existed 1500 years ago while accepting no alteration to these laws no matter how the world around it changed. The reason is because its creators deemed it divine and god ordained and thus it shouldnt be prone to change and eternally applicable. But, imaginary aside, there is no human law that is universally or infinitely applicable, it must conform to changes of habit, mold itself, respect changing perception and take on slightly different form or die out.

The Sharia is prone to iteration Frisbee, there's a whole set of rules on how to explain it and to issue fatwas in a way as to adapt the sharia to the modern times. Of course the validity of these fatwas and fuqh and whether they really help or not is not the issue. The issue is that it's not a stiff text.

From what i gather, and i'm not an expert on the subject but the perception of Islam differs from one context to another; hence, the malleability of sharia.

[fidelio]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Well the thing is we believe the sharia laws have been laid down by God himself. So they are not prone to any form of change.

Yes, but the interpretations do change from one context to another or do they not?

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by fidelio

Yes, but the interpretations do change from one context to another or do they not?

Yes they do.

[fidelio]

Originally Posted by Saladin

Yes they do.

So the Sharia can be malleable enough to accept modern variations.

[Frisbeetarian]

The Sharia is prone to iteration Frisbee, there's a whole set of rules on how to explain it and to issue fatwas in a way as to adapt the sharia to the modern times. Of course the validity of these fatwas and fuqh and whether they really help or not is not the issue. The issue is that it's not a stiff text.

From what i gather, and i'm not an expert on the subject but the perception of Islam differs from one context to another; hence, the malleability of sharia.

Malleability does not come because once can view it under different light or gaze at the laws from a different perspective. Everything is relative, but not versatile. Let me ask you this. How can a law that is god ordained be prone to change? If its god ordained then its infallible. And if it changes, the laws cease to be god ordained since this will put the perfection of said deity under question. This hole tabasco sauce doesnt deal with logic and rational. So i thank you for not jamming god into the argument. I think you knew that doing so would have lessened the strength of your argument.

But im not going to be cheap and confront you solely with this weak point. Ill discuss the Shariaa as a human innovation. As a human innovation, and as an applicable codex of law, can you give me an example of it conforming to changing human morals and understanding of the world? Can you please give me Islam's version of our solar system? Has slavery not been abolished by the infringement of foreign values? Not by dictation of shariaa?

[Saladin]

Originally Posted by fidelio

So the Sharia can be malleable enough to accept modern variations.

That depends on the subject or rule you are dealing with. There are rules that are clear, don't require any efforts of interpretations and are not prone to any form of change such as not drinking alcohol, eating pork or committing adultery. And there are rules which are some how not completely plain or clear and whose interpretation differ depending on the context and school of though of the interpreter.