Sheikh, Beyk,... Origins of these titles?

[mo781]

Originally Posted by I_Am_LebanoN

Those titles are a HUMILIATION
If i was Emir or shaykh or.... i would have been ashamed of it

it doesn't mean anything what's so ever

Please make a destinction when saying some titles are a humiliation.

How dare you say the title of "Say'yed" is a humiliation? That is an insult. This is part of our cultural and religious heritage and it has nothing to do with feudalism or nobility. It's a bloodline historical distinction.

There is nothing wrong with having titles. Great Britain has many feudal originating titles, and the issue is not with them, it is with the Lebanese people who can't handle them or treat them as they ought to be treated.

Titles are not the issue, our mentality is.

[lebanesecanadian]

effendi is used to describe omar karame.
by the way does anyone know what "AGHA" means?

[confirm password]

Originally Posted by lebanesecanadian

effendi is used to describe omar karame.
by the way does anyone know what "AGHA" means?

But Effendi did exist back in the Ottoman days, right?

I know Agha is a family name, never heard of it used as a title.

[Gabriel]

I think the word Sheikh comes from Semite origins ( ^_^ <--DUH!)

Ya3ny the word was used in Siryani and 3araby, i.e: Al Masee7 in Siryani is Al Masheekh in Arabic.

sh --> s
kh --> 7

And both words has to do with religion.
I am not so sure of what I am saying, its just what I came up with.

I really think its interesting that some names in lubnan are also used in my community (Persians of Semite origins). For example Khouri, and Roumi.

My grand fathers in Persia carried some names like Emadi (ref. to a city which was established by one of our grand fathers who's name was Emaddidin El Ansari), we also carried the name Akhond (a Persian word means the Sheikh, lol since one of my grand fathers was - u know - a muslim monk! lol, his name was A.Ra7man Akhond. We also carried the name Bastaki (ref. to the city my ancesstors lived in), and now we carry the name El Ansari (and its the correct name of ours, as we come from the Al Ansari family of Yathrib (Medina), and please do not ref. it to Saudia or Arabs, since it's ancient history has nothing to with any of them.

Mo781 ... nice to meet you dude, actually my grand father's mother is from the Kazem family, from the Prophet's blood line, I guess after all I have connection with prophet Abrahim LOL - since i always believed i have no blood line to him through his children.

As far as I know, Beyk, Basha, Afandi are all Turkish names, but the Aa'3a and Khanom terms are also used in Farsi, I use it a lot with my family like when I call someone I say Niloufar khanom, or Ahmed Aa'3a.
Anyways, Aa'3a means Sayyid, and Khanom means Sayyida.

[Sheikh_Hanna]

I am really enjoying this thread, there is nothing more I like to hear then everyone's story about their family history. I myself come from Nobility, hint my name. I read a post by Lebgirl(?) saying the Sheikh rank come from nothern Maronite family, my family is Maronite and the Awad family comes from Hasroun. I have recently found out about my fuedal background.

I have a question though to the more educated: can you stay each rank from highest to lowest and breifly state the job and duites that come with such job. I not so sure if Lebanese Feudalism is so similair to western Feudalism, is there a differnce?

[exiled_bandit]

...sultan, Pasha, beik, Imbashi, afandi, agha, and (hanoum=>lady) are all ottoman titles, with exception to sultan and hanoum the rest started as military ranks then with the expansion of the emipre the titles became more into the autocratic structure of the state to the extreme that such titles could be either granted by the sultan himself or bought by money from the state. in both cases its issued be a decree from bab el 3ali => sultan.

as you know pasha is the hieghest rank and so on...
eg; jamal pasha, ali pasha..etc they were all states or provice governers (wali for each wilayeh) however you dont need to be a wali to buy a title just with enough influence, money and aoth to serve the sulatn.

[lebgirl]

Originally Posted by Sheikh_Hanna

I am really enjoying this thread, there is nothing more I like to hear then everyone's story about their family history. I myself come from Nobility, hint my name. I read a post by Lebgirl(?) saying the Sheikh rank come from nothern Maronite family, my family is Maronite and the Awad family comes from Hasroun. I have recently found out about my fuedal background.

I have a question though to the more educated: can you stay each rank from highest to lowest and breifly state the job and duites that come with such job. I not so sure if Lebanese Feudalism is so similair to western Feudalism, is there a differnce?

I believe that Lebanese feudalism is similar to the western because feudalism everywhere is the same. However, I dont really think you can rank and state jobs and duties...it does not work that way anymore. Nowadays, titles are earned from father to son , you can only refer to it back in history, how it came about, it is more like history.

[orangearz]

The House of Maan and Shihab are from Arabian lineage the latter Quraish.
Sheiks are Arabian tribal chiefs. "Lord" in Arabia Bedoins and The Civilised Yemen.

Interesting how the are proud of Arabian Titlles and at the same time making fun of them.

[Fragrance of Roses]

Originally Posted by lebgirl

Nowadays, titles are earned from father to son , you can only refer to it back in history, how it came about, it is more like history.

SO untrue LebGirl... they are being acquired like before... through wealth and political power...

Look at "El-Sheikh Saad el Hariri!" Very recent example... only a year ago we were not yet used to the name, and now we say it sooo naturally as if he has been a Sheikh Abban 3an Jid!!!

Ow Well...

[Free_Patriot]

Originally Posted by AbirWard

SO untrue LebGirl... they are being acquired like before... through wealth and political power...

Look at "El-Sheikh Saad el Hariri!" Very recent example... only a year ago we were not yet used to the name, and now we say it sooo naturally as if he has been a Sheikh Abban 3an Jid!!!

Ow Well...

Maybe Cheikh Rafic (RIP) was always jalous of Cheikh Amine (ytawil bi 3emro) so he ended up by not only stealing the title but also stealing more public money