Sheikh, Beyk,... Origins of these titles?

[Fragrance of Roses]

First time I hear of it!!!! Is it a religious title??? Does it have to do with the 3okkal?? Or do the Johhal carry the title too?

[Leb Lady]

no not a religious title but more a aristocraty one very few families has it like talhouk .
the only title which was bought was the bek one.

[Leb Lady]

the last chehab emirs were christians but they were before sunni.
All those titles have nothig to do with religion but are found in each community it's different from the sheilkh (in islam) and sheikh as old or wise

[lebgirl]

Originally Posted by une concernee

As Souss said these titles ar all taken from the Ottoman hierarchy.. they had a certain politicy that allows the rich people to buy these titles (and this was adopted in lebanon and may be still exist).. Concerning the mountains it's not only in the North but in all of lebanon were poor people used to call the rich ones by titles even if they hadn't bought one, specially if this person was new into their country.. and they used to accord the title "sheikh" to the Moukhtar for his post because usually "sheikh" means educated, and from here we can explain why old people are called "sheikh and sheikha" as if they have live for long time and known what is life, so experience taught them and educated them.. However i think that for this same reason we have "sheikh" in islam (the one who studied islam religion and is supposed to know it very good and becomes as a reference).. and we should not forget the Hachem family who are also "beit masheyikh" (muslim and chistian) and this is related to their origins from Sulalet An-Nabi..
:

i Have to disagree with what you said. this is not true at all.
shou you're claiming they had a certain policy that allowed the rich people to buy these titles??? from where did you get this!!! please enlighten me and give me a reference if you do have on. But I will give you facts. For a fact, during the ottoman empire, when Fakhr Diin II wanted to escape or he would have been killed, the Khazens who at the time were people like all other(did not have much money) gave him refuge and adopted him until he grew up and took the title of king and following this period, he gave them as a reward the title..and this is how it came about.
ba3den it s not necessarely true that only old people are given this title, many young have it as well.

[Leb Lady]

Originally Posted by lebgirl

i Have to disagree with what you said. this is not true at all.
shou you're claiming they had a certain policy that allowed the rich people to buy these titles??? from where did you get this!!! please enlighten me and give me a reference if you do have on. But I will give you facts. For a fact, during the ottoman empire, when Fakhr Diin II wanted to escape or he would have been killed, the Khazens who at the time were people like all other(did not have much money) gave him refuge and adopted him until he grew up and took the title of king and following this period, he gave them as a reward the title..and this is how it came about.
ba3den it s not necessarely true that only old people are given this title, many young have it as well.

u are wright the info of une concernee are not correct

[Souss]

Originally Posted by AbirWard

Ok Ok!!!! I found a good book that says what follows:
"After his removal [fakhreddine Al Maani] the Ottomans found, in 1667, a new local ally to do their bidding in Fakhreddine's grand nephew, Ahmad Maan. He was awarded an emirate that was annually renewable and encompassed the Chouf and Kesrouane, but excluded the coastal towns. When he died without an heir in 1697, the emirate passed to the Shihab family, Sunni descendants of the Maans through the female line." In the second half of the 18th century they began to convert to Christianity and by 1770 all Shihab emirs were Maronite."
All's well that ends well
I stand corrected, but I've proven my point that they had something to do with the Druze!! LOL
(I Laves messin with ya Masculin Sous! I shall dust off my history books and smack you with one on the head when I see you on July 3rd) You'll be there, won't you?

Alright Mrs.W, but I'm bringing my dictionary just for self-defence

Do we have a meeting on July 3rd?? Why am I the last to know?

[Fragrance of Roses]

Hmmm!!! I was not aware of that!!! Thanks for enlightening me Leb Lady! I thought the Talhouks were Masheyikh only! I knew that their social stance is very high among the other masheyikh, but I did not know that they had a name for that. As for the Beik title, I know for a fact that some families with the title did not purchase it, but rather earned it. The same with the Mashiyikh!!! The Druze families have very prominent families who earned their social titles, and some just claimed it. There is a great big difference between the religious title in the religion and the social title.
As for what Leb Girl said, I completely agree! The difference between the religious and social titles is vast. I knew she can explain better about how the Christian Mashyakha came into being.

[lebgirl]

Originally Posted by cedarheart

Some families in Lebanon hold some titles of which they are proud and make a big deal about them. Mostly feudal titles.

of course, if your ancestors were "given" the titles in the past because of thier actions, and did great things in the history of your country, i dont see why they shouldnt be proud of it..

Originally Posted by cedarheart

Example:
Sheikh: Khazen, Gemayel, Abi Nader, Khoury, etc... (seems that most of them are maronite families from Mount-Lebanon and the North)
Beyk: Jumblat, Karam,...
Emir: Chehab, Arslan, Abi Lamaa,..
Also seems that these titles are mostly concentrated in the Mount-Lebanon/North areas.
Where did these families get those titles from? from whom? who gave it to them? Are they all related to the ottoman empire days? Is it true that the maronite church used to name "sheikhs of the church" (machayikh el kanissa)?

If you read some history books, you will know where some of the families got their titles. For instance as i explained earlier, the Khazen got it from the emir Fekhr dine:
you can check here exactly how you got it, this is written by le consul de France in French:

http://www.khazen.org/index.php?opti...d=70&Itemid=43 (link aproved by ComradeBassam)

you will find all you need to know

[Fragrance of Roses]

Originally Posted by Souss

Alright Mrs.W, but I'm bringing my dictionary just for self-defence

Do we have a meeting on July 3rd?? Why am I the last to know?

Ok Souss, you have to Pm Tazzi about your interest in the meeting!!! Check out the thread about the meeting from time to time, it won't hurt, believe me!!!!!
If you bring your dictionary, make sure it is not the Oxford English Dictionary!!! That thing hurts badly!!! I don't want to leave the meeting in an ambulance!!! Have mercy on me!!
Now back to the topic

[Leb Lady]

The Christian Mashayekh got their title through brave actions made for the emirs or to protect their feodal territory.
We have 6 maronite Cheikh family and one orhtodox (azar)