[Ataraxia]

Originally Posted by TripolySunni

I never Said they followed organized religion, Not Islam not christianity not judaism. But Many of 'em believe That there is an origin To all thier Discoveries and they Fully realise that the only Explanation They could ever have at the end of thier Journey is that Something CAUSED all of these events to happen or Something was the Catalyst.

Even if I want to take that into account, I don't understand how you're still talking about it. If you want to take their words into account, why don't you take their disbelief in organized religion ( including Islam) into account as well ? This doesn't work.

>>Well Guess What? This religious Theory Came from fellow Athiests, They Found what they were talking about to be so nonesensical that they came up with the theories, And Guess who Influenced Them? It was actually muslim Scholars.

Lol fellow atheists created ID ? LOL For one to be an atheist first and foremost he realizes that just because something is inexplainable doesn't mean it is attributed to the God of Gaps. So what you just said is the most illogical thing I have heard in this thread.

Yes All of it is so complex and detailed to have happened alone, unless ur One of those "Possibility" people who Say: "Yes! There is a Chance that a Tornado attacking a heap of Metal can result in a Shiny Lexus with a Motor and Full tank of Gas".
Each human has his Own God(s) and to many Scientists, The God is "Science" But at some point they always reach the conclusion that This Solid Mass or Rock which exploded to form everything else, Where Did It Come From? Who Made it? Why was there a Gravitational Pull from the Inside?
Unless the Big Bang is the "God" if it is established that it transcends creation Thus The Rules which apply to us do not apply to it.

Complexity here can turn against you. Once you say something is very complex you are opening questions for every person on why it should be very complex when the world could have been much simpler and smaller and restricted and done with a snap of a hand since if it was only done for a purpose then it could have been in any other shape serving that purpose. That's one thing, the other thing is complexity is a necessity in the evolution process and in the adaptation process. You are, once again, referring to the God of gaps.
In short, If I was debating you a thousand( or more) years back, you would be defending your point that God exists by telling me that thunder is unexplainable.

Quran does Have many Scientific Facts who are all affirmed by science But the main purpose ofthe Book was not science, the Main purpose was Refutations to Christian and jewsih claims and to teach morals and to Forbid adultery and incest ect.ect...

To me these refutations are just more proof on how human all these are. The fact that people want to argue about which divine religion out of THREE is right puts the organized religion out of logical proportion. An all-knowing God would not need to bring a religion and then bring another. It's a matter of perspective on this, I know, but I don't see any sense in it, just more proof that these were human creations to mass control. I am surprised that for the first time someone tells me not all religions are true, and only Islam is. ( ofcourse in a debate about Does God Exist).Inside, they will think their religion is only true, but they won't bring it up maybe for more logic.

The Scientists which you talk about Drop thier christianity because it contradicts Science head on, And since they arn't muslims nor know nothing of it then Islam is out of the question for Most of them, But Thier research is only leading them one way and only one way and that is as clear as daylight.
Here's a list of the Famous Scientists who believed in a God:
Nicholas Copernicus.
Sir Francis Bacon.
Johannes Kepler.
Galileo Galilei.
Rene Descartes.
Isaac Newton.
Robert Boyle.
Michael Faraday.
Gregor Mendel.
William Thomson Kelvin.
Max Planck.
Albert Einstein.

I don't know about the religious leanings of each of them. But since you are putting them in one column, I have to tell you that for example Albert Einstein did not believe in Islam or any organized religion. Actually he didn't even believe in God the way you think he did. His God was special and the characterizations of him were similar to the formula the Greek did. he always had difficulty attributing anything to him and to me it seemed like he was just acting philosophical and from an agnostic point of view. Also As you recalled early scientists, it is definitely more likely ( despite their disbelief in organized religion) that they believe in God in some form of it. If anything, this proves how that even in 1564, a person like Galileo was defying the ignorant teachings yet only maintained his bond with the catholic church for the spiritual effect it had on him probably. If you look at our more opened and progressed and informed societies now, you can see that scientists are maintaining their disbelief in God and organized religion and some of them even dropping it completely off since they do not find it anymore important to have a spiritual bond with some God which they don't even know how to characterize.

My Reply would be to ask God, But He hinted in what purpose we were created, and Don't think that this is the Only world that exists he created many others it says so even in the bible which was Mis-Translated from "and God created the Worlds" to "and God created the World".
In the Quran he mentions Many other creations Other than the Ins (Humans).

You still didn't answer the question. I said why the universe was created and not why Humans were. Actually that was my main point in the question. Humans were created after the universe was. So there weren't any humans so that God would say : Let's create the universe to be able to judge the humans. In other words as I said two or three times before in this thread: He created a problem to fix and a concept to solve. This is why I referred to you as thinking backwards. You are loving in the moment and not being inclusive.

He didn't ignore anyone, he sent prophet and messenger one after the other with CLEAR signs Until he made sure that the people Got it right then left it up to them to follow or Not and the concequences are Just as Clear. Islam is not a Game, All other religions tell you that if you join us you go to heaven, whereas islam is the Only religion that guarantees that you will go to hell.

He ignored everyone who came before him. Millions of people. So as Jesus did.

Belief Alone Will Get you Nowhere, Satan Himself Believes That God exists, In Islam Satan Makes Du3a2 to Allah and tells Him "Please Let me Take this Human Adam with Me to hell." Do you think Satan won't go to hell because he believes That God exists? Ur Belief will Not get you into Heaven, and ur Good deeds will not Get You Into Heaven The Only thing which will get you Into Heaven is Allah's Mercy, Heck Even Mohammad(PBUH) Said that Neither My good deds or my Strong Faith will Grant Me Paradise But Allah's Mercy upon me will.

I know this. I would kill myself if I didn't. This type of ignorance is present everywhere. People will call you Kaffer and even a satanist just because you don't believe in God although technically it's the most contradictory anyone can say.

As for ur Theory that one Human dies before the Other, well Each of us has his Time and Allah will not reveal ur Time for you because If he does then you would repent Like 5 minutes before you die and that's it. Every Second Counts for you Mortal. Allah Does create people with DisAdvantages Such as Handicaps and so on Only to Show you Healthy Individuals His Mercy and Compassion so that you may be Thankful, And he will never Judge the Handicapt with Injustice but based on his circumstances and He will never judge you as a Kaffer if you didn't recieve proper guidance But he will judge you If you didn't Seek it with the Time alloted to you in the Life.

It's unfair, and unequal, and you are disregarding a human's soul ( which is the main point of religion : evaluating a human soul). Also you ran away from the answer by preaching, which is a common method for religious people. I'm talking about the "what if". A person is a murderer... when ? Maybe he could have killed after he died. Does that make him any better to go to heaven ? you are only giving regard to his body and not for his feelings and emotions and thinking and most importantly soul ? This is a huge flaw in the heaven and hell equation.
If you will answer me that God knows (lol), well that all-knowing God had very much time (and illogic) on his hand because even that he knows everyone's thinking he still created everything and made the whole process work. Which is why religion contradicts itself with the concept of "free thinking".