[TripolySunni]

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

You are actually wrong, most scientists know that there is no God. And those who do surely do not believe any organized religion. So stop spreading your nonsense.

I never Said they followed organized religion, Not Islam not christianity not judaism. But Many of 'em believe That there is an origin To all thier Discoveries and they Fully realise that the only Explanation They could ever have at the end of thier Journey is that Something CAUSED all of these events to happen or Something was the Catalyst.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Also about ID, it's a religious theory not a scientific one. Go play this somewhere else. You think just because you heard some "scientific term" then it is scientific ? ID talks about creationism and is creationism with no scientific base. It's assumptions are purely religious. People just seem to get excited when they hear new terms.

>>Well Guess What? This religious Theory Came from fellow Athiests, They Found what they were talking about to be so nonesensical that they came up with the theories, And Guess who Influenced Them? It was actually muslim Scholars.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Most of it is talking about how everything is so complex and detailed for it to have happened alone, which actually defies science and promotes the God of gaps because science and scientists always defied the God of gaps and tried to find how everything happen and not just look at how wonderful life is. Go back to ancient times, if everything you don't understand would have been attributed to God and left at that , we would be still fools looking at thunder and going : "OMG !" So supporting the "God of gaps" is not the wisest stance you can take.

Yes All of it is so complex and detailed to have happened alone, unless ur One of those "Possibility" people who Say: "Yes! There is a Chance that a Tornado attacking a heap of Metal can result in a Shiny Lexus with a Motor and Full tank of Gas".
Each human has his Own God(s) and to many Scientists, The God is "Science" But at some point they always reach the conclusion that This Solid Mass or Rock which exploded to form everything else, Where Did It Come From? Who Made it? Why was there a Gravitational Pull from the Inside?
Unless the Big Bang is the "God" if it is established that it transcends creation Thus The Rules which apply to us do not apply to it.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Seriously I don't care what reasons the prophet and Jesus or whoever else had. In Quran and the bible verses upon verses mixed together and at the end whatever way you go, someone would try to explain some very abstract statement the way he wants. He doesn't have to go into scientific explanation. He could have simply said it the way any ignorant today would understand it. Big Bang happened ( he can call it anything), then after certain years ( Earth was created) bla bla, etc.

I Doubt they were playing games at the time and I Assure you that If Mohammad (PBUH) Said things that Didn't Make Sense at the Time, I doubt anybody would take him Seriously. Quran must be Understood Clearly At all Times for All generations, He Can't talk about Petrol energy when no one understands What energy Is in the first Place.
But He did Describe The Foetus as being Sperm then a Clot of Blood then a Leach like Substance and so on... But He Cannot Say the Word "vertebrate" without information and a Biology lesson in Order to ... ( to do what exactly? Why would he Give a biology lesson when he Himself as a prophet Knew Nothing of this anyway?) That serves No Purpose In religion, Instead he focused on telling them that they should Educate themselves more and study the sciences. It's like teaching the Man how to Fish instead of giving him a Fish and then abandoning him.

Quran does Have many Scientific Facts who are all affirmed by science But the main purpose ofthe Book was not science, the Main purpose was Refutations to Christian and jewsih claims and to teach morals and to Forbid adultery and incest ect.ect...

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

It's still flat-out contradictory, and I don't see how you assume it is water.
Also u're verse:

No It's not contradictory, in fact it couldn't be clearer and is repeated many times in the Quran and in the Hadiths CLEARLY AND WITHOUT HESITATION AND AMBIGUITIES LIKE OTHER PEICES OF LITERATURE. Where is the Contradiction? He is telling you that he Started everything From Clay (Dust,Sands...) Then He somehow Mixed it with Water to create every Living Being. and today Science proves that everything Living Starts with Water In fact the earliest life form were Living In Water Billions of years ago.
and BTW not to burst ur Bubble, even if you don't want to apply it to the Big Bang itself The verse Is also a Direct description of How a Solar system or Galaxy is Formed.

As for the Other stuff you Quoted These are all English translations, and I posted them in English because I know you couldn't handle Arabic specially that of the uran you won't Get it So you need a translation.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Again scientists are the most skeptical people on earth when it comes to God and the highest level of atheists (relatively) are scientists.

The Scientists which you talk about Drop thier christianity because it contradicts Science head on, And since they arn't muslims nor know nothing of it then Islam is out of the question for Most of them, But Thier research is only leading them one way and only one way and that is as clear as daylight.
Here's a list of the Famous Scientists who believed in a God:
Nicholas Copernicus.
Sir Francis Bacon.
Johannes Kepler.
Galileo Galilei.
Rene Descartes.
Isaac Newton.
Robert Boyle.
Michael Faraday.
Gregor Mendel.
William Thomson Kelvin.
Max Planck.
Albert Einstein.

Hmmm, it seems these guys are the most famous scientists on the face of this Planet, Could they be on to sumthin'? But I assure you they didn't believe in the Standard Christianity But they had thier own version of a God or a creator.

THese are Some of the most Famous Scientists (Not nobodies) from Various fields Commenting on Quranic Verses They studied:
Science Islam - Scientists Comment on the Quran

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

What's the point. You are discussing trivial matters that no matter what cannot prove anything. Yet still you maintain your superior standpoint. The Pharoans talked about explosions in the universe and others talked about water being a source of life. That and all what you said is just symbolic.

Yes and Mohamad(PBUH) took all the correct theories and left all the false ones, you know he the illeterate Arab in the middle of the desert Got Translations from all of these Ancient thoeries. very believable.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

You however still didn't answer me on why would God create a universe?

My Reply would be to ask God, But He hinted in what purpose we were created, and Don't think that this is the Only world that exists he created many others it says so even in the bible which was Mis-Translated from "and God created the Worlds" to "and God created the World".
In the Quran he mentions Many other creations Other than the Ins (Humans).

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

I also want you to answer me on why he ignored all the people before him ?

He didn't ignore anyone, he sent prophet and messenger one after the other with CLEAR signs Until he made sure that the people Got it right then left it up to them to follow or Not and the concequences are Just as Clear. Islam is not a Game, All other religions tell you that if you join us you go to heaven, whereas islam is the Only religion that guarantees that you will go to hell.

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

(it makes sense that as civilization was on the way, and as a more intellectual society was taking over, someone ( especially that he was predated by others) would use a bit more scientific approach to the mass control of the people and their way of living)

He was an illiterate and owned Nothing but a few Items in his House as recorded very clearly by a billion sources.

Either He was extremely Foolish to do what he did, Or he was a prophet which Aquired guidance and aid by a superior being.

But he sure did write a Pretty good book in terms of Science and parabols and Grammar and Eloquence and even good Knowlege of the Past and the future. He is so Foolish that he Is Considred by a Famous Christian Author (Michael Hart) to be #1 from amongst the top 100 Greatest Men in History with Jesus at #3 (Surprizingly).

Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Also I want you to answer me about Heaven and Hell. The equation that makes no sense not on a physical level; on a logical level. Let me give you a small example. I live now and have my own beliefs. I am a good guy. I will consider I have done nothing wrong to be punished (by the rules of any religion la2anno smallah fee tleteh , wbeddi emro2 3a eed juda, wyasou3 welnabi abel ma owsal 3a heaven). So technically I am going to heaven. Yet, I could have done major killings later on, I could have turned into the biggest monster the world would have known. To make it more simple, consider that the reason I couldn't do that is because I died. So I went to heaven. Another person, who is not as "lucky" as me goes straight to hell because he didn't die and he went on to do mass killings. So it's just a matter of time ? Baby kids also all go to heaven because they couldn't grow and "have their stance in life" ? If I want to redeem myself and couldn't because of some accident but another does, then I can't go to heaven anymore but he can ? Isn't this all "unfair advantage" I can go on and on with all this flawed heaven and hell equation that is the ultimate force that mass controls people on earth.

Belief Alone Will Get you Nowhere, Satan Himself Believes That God exists, In Islam Satan Makes Du3a2 to Allah and tells Him "Please Let me Take this Human Adam with Me to hell." Do you think Satan won't go to hell because he believes That God exists? Ur Belief will Not get you into Heaven, and ur Good deeds will not Get You Into Heaven The Only thing which will get you Into Heaven is Allah's Mercy, Heck Even Mohammad(PBUH) Said that Neither My good deds or my Strong Faith will Grant Me Paradise But Allah's Mercy upon me will.

As for ur Theory that one Human dies before the Other, well Each of us has his Time and Allah will not reveal ur Time for you because If he does then you would repent Like 5 minutes before you die and that's it. Every Second Counts for you Mortal. Allah Does create people with DisAdvantages Such as Handicaps and so on Only to Show you Healthy Individuals His Mercy and Compassion so that you may be Thankful, And he will never Judge the Handicapt with Injustice but based on his circumstances and He will never judge you as a Kaffer if you didn't recieve proper guidance But he will judge you If you didn't Seek it with the Time alloted to you in the Life.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَأَنْتُمْ مُسْلِمُونَ
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كل نفس ذائقة الموت وانما توفون أجوركم يوم القيامة
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يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالاً كَثِيراً وَنِسَاءً وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالْأَرْحَامَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيباً
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يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَقُولُوا قَوْلاً سَدِيداً * يُصْلِحْ لَكُمْ أَعْمَالَكُمْ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ فَازَ فَوْزاً عَظِيما