[JOlsson]

Originally Posted by ArabJew

i strongly oppose a two state solution - it will solve nothing and only serve to create one or more non-viable states. this calculation includes variations of 'safe passage' between the strip and the bank. a palestinian state in the west bank and gaza even if linked is not a viable solution to the refugee problem. it simply cannot hold them, even under the ludicrous assumption that the world will invest scores of billions of dollars and monitor that they do get invested properly.

Without going into the minute details of a two-state solution, the other options I can broadly think of are:

1) One democratic state for all.
2) Sectarian/ethnic/religious system like Lebanon,
3) Jordan to incorporate most the West Bank and Egypt to incorporate all of Gaza.

I think it is safe to say the option 1 is the most unrealistic solution simply because it would defeat the purpose of Israel as the homeland for Jews and that there has been too much blood lost already and it would most likely end up in a bloody civil war faster that I could finish this sentence.

Option 2 for pretty much the same reasons as option 1. From a stand point of democracy, it would be a large step backwards and eventually the largest ethnic/religious group would call and actively work for its abandonment for the sake of 'democracy'. The sectarian system would only work if the ethnic/religious divide is roughly equal where no group consisting of more than 50% of the population.

Option 3 I think is, from a pragmatic point of view, the most viable option out of the three because it was more or less a reality for 20 years until the 67 war and the PLO only officially adopted the notion of an independent Arab Palestinian state until the early 70s.

A two-state solution has been accepted by representative of the Arab Palestinians, most of the Arab world, Israel, and the international community as the path to walk. Obviously, the viability of such solution is possible, otherwise it wouldn't be tabled and broadly accepted as the way to go forward. I agree that there could be a problem of viability if the Arab Palestinian side is too small and scattered, but is an issue that would be resolved if the commitment to make it a viable state was there. I.e. Israel would have probably have to relinquish most of the West Bank if it meant an Arab Palestinian state would be viable.

The issue of refugees I see could be addressed along what the Clinton administration suggested. All refugees would decide on:
1) Become citizen of the country they're currently residing
2) Move to a newly created Arab Palestinian state, or
3) Relocate to Israel.

Obviously, there would be a quota system that all concerned parties would have to agree upon. It would mean, for example, that Lebanon, and other states, would have to accept a portion of the refugees and make them full citizens and Israel would have to accept the a portion of the refugees and make them full Israeli citizens. The new Arab Palestinian state would have to accept the remaining refugees.

to see why this will never work, consider this: what form will palestine take? what will be its ideology, that bonds it together? how will that ideology contain peace agreement with opposition to israel, either nationalistic or islamic?

I'm not quite sure where you're going with this, but I believe there is already a constitution for an Arab Palestinian state drawn up by the PLO that is secular in its nature. I'm not entirely convinced that Hamas agrees with that, though.

what form will israel take? what will be its ideology, that bonds it together? how will that ideology contain peace agreement with opposition to israel, either nationalistic or islamic?

I can't see Israel being anything different from what it is now.

(on our behalf, i can guarantee that at most 3% of israelis harbor expansionist dreams, btw, the entire left-right axis here revolves around palestinian territories. please cut that 'nile to furat' bs out of this discussion)

Where did I refer to that "'nile' to 'furat' bs"??? The expansionist dreams I referred to is the Israelis who believe that West Bank Palestinians should go to Jordan and Judea and Samaria belongs to Israel. Which I consider to be no different from those who calls for the destruction of Israel.